ᐅ Kitchen & Budget – Quick Assessment Needed!

I need to speak up about a couple of things now:

Counter despite dining table
We have both right next to each other, and it makes sense. The kids have breakfast at the counter while I prepare their school lunches.

Guests have a drink there while I’m cooking.

A quick snack usually happens at the counter.

Proper meals, on the other hand, take place at the dining table.

However, we use the counter as an extended work surface and as a dedicated prep and casual chatting area (about 1.70m x 1.00m (5 ft 7 in x 3 ft 3 in)).

You test it out for yourselves, and you’ll be happy with the raised counter, even if it doesn’t suit others.


Dishes in drawers
Since we only had space for one wall cabinet, we keep our dishes in a 1m (3 ft 3 in) drawer. I was skeptical at first, but it works great—it’s really just a matter of getting used to it.

Because the kids can’t reach the wall cabinet, I also keep 3-4 glasses in the drawer so they can access them more easily. You can have things in different places if it makes sense.


Side-by-side refrigerator
I’ve already mentioned this, but if you love it, you won’t want anything else.


General planning
I would definitely recommend doing a storage planning first. That’s the only way to see if the layout works and if the drawer heights are correct in the right spots.

I thought about it a lot and ended up loading almost exactly as planned, and I’m really happy.

You might want to visit 2-3 studios again.

There you can do two things:

Plan exactly the same design again and compare prices.

Or have alternatives planned.

This way, you get a feel for the prices and can see if the design is really perfect for you.

Starting a planning thread in the mentioned forum could also be an option. But you’ll get a lot of pushback about the counter and side-by-side fridge—I experienced the same, so I didn’t continue the planning there or share the result.

But it might go differently for you.

Best regards,
Birgit

aero2016 schrieb:
By the way, wide drawers for dishes work really well, just as a side note.

Never putting plates anywhere else again.

The side-by-side refrigerator is not a favorite because:

• the fridge compartment always opens with a right-hand hinge, which can be inconvenient depending on the kitchen layout. This would be the case with Zaba if a side-by-side fridge, as shown in the study plan, were chosen. However, Zaba12 didn’t choose a side-by-side but a French door fridge... much more practical
• the fridge compartment of a side-by-side goes all the way down to the floor... usability suffers, and the freezer section can be quite narrow, so it’s worth testing with something like a pizza box. This is not an issue with the French door chosen by Zaba12.
• a side-by-side fridge is generally harder to integrate because it has this extra depth.

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Regarding the many downdraft extractors that are currently popular: unfortunately, they interrupt the countertop around the cooktop and take up quite a lot of space in the base cabinets, especially with recirculation systems.

I’m personally a big fan of ceiling-mounted range hoods, and especially a fan of sink/work/preparation islands and wall kitchen units.
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A quick note for Zaba12:

• Extend the wall by the stairs by about 10 cm (4 inches) to allow the possibility of boxing in tall cabinets
• Tall cabinet wall made from 40 cm (16 inches) wide units with internal pull-outs for pantry items, etc.
• French door fridge
• 60 cm (24 inches) tall cabinet for the oven, allowing enough elbow room

Sink run in extra depth consisting of:

• 60 cm (24 inches) base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer configuration (almost like an 80 cm (32 inches) base cabinet)
• 60 cm (24 inches) dishwasher
• 60 cm (24 inches) sink cabinet with bins for recyclable waste, paper, and a shelf for typical kitchen cleaning supplies
• 40 cm (16 inches) base cabinet with waste sorting system for organic and residual waste, located directly under the countertop
• 60 cm (24 inches) base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer setup (again, nearly like an 80 cm (32 inches) base cabinet)

Cook island from kitchen side:

• 30 cm (12 inches) base cabinet with internal pull-out, especially for spices, etc.
• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet for cooktop - configured as 2-2-2 drawers
• 60 cm (24 inches) pull-out base cabinet with 1-1-2-2 drawer layout

Cook island from the back side:

• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet with drawers, reduced depth by 20 cm (8 inches) to make room behind for the recirculation unit, etc.
• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet with drawers

I would only install the breakfast bar diagonally, if at all, as a casual standing counter.

Because if you also add a 2 x 1 m (6.5 x 3.3 feet) large dining table with ample seating to the room, it becomes clear that the sliding door should be placed where I marked it in green, as that will be the more direct and straight walking path from the kitchen. Also, because of the fireplace, the table will likely be positioned as shown so that it is not too close to the heat source.

On the wall section transitioning to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass display cabinet for non-daily-use glasses.

To the left of the kitchen window (what is the height of the window sill, by the way???) a wall cabinet could also be added if absolutely necessary. But definitely make sure it offers easily reachable space for the coffee machine or coffee maker.

kbt09 schrieb:
Never use a plate rack anywhere else.

The side-by-side refrigerator is not such a favorite because:

• the refrigerator compartment door always opens with a right-hand hinge, which can be inconvenient depending on the kitchen layout. This would be the case for Zaba, if, as shown in the studio plan, a side-by-side fridge is chosen. However, Zaba12 is not choosing a side-by-side but a French door... much more practical.
• the refrigerator compartment in a side-by-side extends all the way to the floor... ease of use, while the freezer part is sometimes quite narrow, and you really should do the pizza box test. This is not a problem with the French door chosen by Zaba12.
• a side-by-side fridge is always a bit harder to integrate because it has an extended depth.

------------------------
Regarding the many downdraft extractor fans and such that are currently trendy: unfortunately, they interrupt a cooking surface, and especially with recirculation mode, they take up a lot of space in the base cabinets.

I am personally a confirmed fan of ceiling-mounted range hoods and especially a fan of sink/work/preparation islands as well as wall kitchen units.
---------------------------

For Zaba12 quickly:

• Extend the wall to the staircase by about 10cm (4 inches) to allow for enclosing tall cabinets
• Tall cabinet wall with 40cm (16 inches) units with pull-out shelves for pantry items, etc.
• French door refrigerator
• 60cm (24 inches) tall cabinet for oven... providing elbow room

Sink run in extended depth including:

• 60cm (24 inches) base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer configuration (almost like an 80cm (31 inch) base cabinet)
• 60cm (24 inches) dishwasher
• 60cm (24 inches) sink cabinet with bins for recyclable waste, paper, and a shelf for typical kitchen cleaning products
• 40cm (16 inches) base cabinet with waste separation system for organic and residual waste right under the countertop
• 60cm (24 inches) base cabinet with 1-2-3 drawer configuration (almost like an 80cm (31 inch) base cabinet)

Cooking island from kitchen side:

• 30cm (12 inches) cabinet with pull-out, especially for spices, etc.
• 90cm (36 inches) cabinet for cooktop - 2-2-2 drawer layout
• 60cm (24 inches) pull-out base cabinet with 1-1-2-2 drawer layout

Cooking island from the back side:

• 90cm (36 inches) cabinet with drawers, shortened by 20cm (8 inches) in depth to allow space behind for recirculation unit etc.
• 90cm (36 inches) cabinet with drawers

I would only install a breakfast bar on the corner, if at all, as a standing bar.

Because if you also add a 2 x 1 meter (6.5 x 3.3 feet) dining table with generous seating to the room, it becomes clear that the sliding door section should be placed where I marked it in green since this offers a more direct and straight walking path from the kitchen. Also, due to the fireplace, the table will usually be positioned as I placed it here so that you’re not too close to the heat.

On the wall section transitioning to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass cabinet for everyday-use glassware.

Left of the kitchen window (what is the sill height there, by the way???) you could also add a wall cabinet if absolutely necessary. But definitely a well-accessible spot for the coffee machine/automatic coffee maker there.

I think your design is brilliant!

kbt09 schrieb:
Never going anywhere else for plates.

The side-by-side refrigerator is not a favorite because

• the fridge compartment door always opens from the right side, which can be inconvenient depending on the kitchen layout. For example, this would be the case for Zaba if a side-by-side fridge was chosen as shown in the initial plan. However, Zaba12 opts for a French door model instead, which is much more practical.
• the fridge compartment in a side-by-side unit extends all the way to the floor, which affects ease of use. The freezer section is sometimes quite narrow, and you might want to do the pizza box test. This isn’t an issue with the French door model chosen by Zaba12.
• a side-by-side fridge is generally harder to integrate because it tends to be deeper than standard cabinets.

------------------------
Regarding the popular downdraft extractor fans, unfortunately they interrupt the countertop and cooktop surface, and tend to take up a lot of space in the base cabinets, especially with recirculation setups.

I am personally a big fan of ceiling-mounted range hoods and especially a fan of kitchen islands with sinks/prep areas, as well as of wall-mounted kitchen units.
---------------------------

Quick suggestions for Zaba12:

• Extend the wall by the staircase by about 10 cm (4 inches) to allow boxing in tall cabinets
• Tall cabinet wall with 40 cm (16 inches) wide cabinets with internal pull-outs for pantry items, etc.
• French door refrigerator
• 60 cm (24 inches) tall cabinet for the oven to allow enough elbow room

Sink run in deeper cabinets consisting of:

• 60 cm (24 inches) base cabinet with drawer configuration 1-2-3 (almost like an 80 cm (31 inch) base cabinet)
• 60 cm (24 inches) dishwasher
• 60 cm (24 inches) sink base cabinet with containers for recyclable waste bags, paper waste, and a shelf for typical kitchen cleaning supplies
• 40 cm (16 inches) base cabinet with waste separation system for organic and residual waste, directly under the countertop
• 60 cm (24 inches) base cabinet with drawer configuration 1-2-3 (again almost like an 80 cm (31 inch) cabinet)

Cooking island from the kitchen side:

• 30 cm (12 inches) cabinet with internal pull-out, ideal for spices etc.
• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet for the cooktop with 2-2-2 drawer layout
• 60 cm (24 inches) base cabinet with pull-outs in 1-1-2-2 configuration

Cooking island from the opposite side:

• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet with pull-outs, depth reduced by 20 cm (8 inches) to allow space for the recirculation unit behind
• 90 cm (36 inches) cabinet with pull-outs

I would only add a breakfast bar at a corner, if at all, as a standing bar.

If you then place a 2x1 meter (6.5x3.3 foot) dining table with comfortable seating in the room, it becomes clear that the sliding door should be located where I marked it in green, since this provides a more direct and straight route from the kitchen. Also, due to the fireplace, the table will always be arranged as I have planned, so it’s not too close to the heat source.

On the wall section transitioning to the living area, I could imagine a nice glass display cabinet for special occasion glassware.

To the left of the kitchen window (by the way, what is the window sill height there?), a wall cabinet could be added if really necessary. Definitely a handy spot for a coffee machine or fully automatic coffee maker.

I want to respond at least to acknowledge the personal effort you put into this and to thank you for the alternative ideas.

I am 100% on board with your last paragraph. That has always been the plan, and it will not be changed.

Perhaps our fondness for counters is influenced by family experience. My parents have an L-shaped kitchen with a long counter on the opposite wall. On both sides there are two stools. Whenever my wife and I visit with the kids, after a while everyone ends up sitting or standing at the counter. Coffee is enjoyed, conversation flows. The kids both want to be at the counter. In the evenings, food preparation happens there (which is not possible for my wife with an island in our current kitchen). When there is enough room, dinner is eaten at the counter -- of course not with six people. When the kids are asleep, my wife and I stand at the counter in the evening with a glass of wine, whisky, or something similar. It might be that it feels cozy because two people can sit facing each other. That’s not possible with an island.

You are all right, the island loses its advantage for dual-sided working. That is definitely a strong disadvantage if many hands want to help. My wife imagines all the children (8 and 6.5 years old at move-in) sitting at the counter watching.

If number three is on the way soon, standing or sitting at the counter might be over anyway.

We will definitely discuss the drawer layout. I explained the 1-1-2-2 configuration to my wife. She seems open to it.

The space under the sink is not suitable for placing the trash bins since we have a boiling water tap. The trash bin is currently planned to be to the left of the stove in the 3-drawer cabinet.

Regarding storage planning: Currently, we have a 40 cm (16 inches) pot cabinet that is too small, with a 40 cm (16 inches) wall cabinet above it holding bowls and miscellaneous items. Then comes the oven, stove, and range hood. Next to that is a 40 cm (16 inches) cabinet with drawers in a 1-2-2 layout for cutlery, spices, and bowls. That is definitely too small. Above it is a 40 cm (16 inches) wall cabinet used only for plates, which is sufficient just for the kitchen – there is another cabinet for plates in the living room. Then comes a corner where the Thermomix is placed. Next to the corner are the dishwasher and sink (both 60 cm (24 inches)), with trash bins underneath. Above is a 100 cm (39 inches) wall cabinet for glasses and cups. Next to that is a 20–30 cm (8–12 inches) pull-out cabinet for cereal, Nutella, etc. Next to that is the 60 cm (24 inches) combined fridge and freezer. On another wall there is a 150 cm (59 inches) sideboard at countertop height with 2 cabinets and 4 drawers, holding the coffee machine, toaster, and bread box. The sideboard is about two-thirds full of Tupperware. The drawers hold cleaning cloths, rags, and miscellaneous items. The rest is stored in three wooden shelves in the 3 square meter (32 square feet) pantry.

I should add that we really dislike eating at the living room dining table. All meals are taken in the kitchen at a 70x120 cm (28x47 inches) table. The living room table is used only when there are many guests.

What will definitely not happen is changing the layout by extending the staircase wall. I will not block a clear view into the room with a corner wall.

Maybe it would make sense to use the unused stair wall space but without extending or building a wall. I am considering that. If so, only an L-shaped layout with an island would work, but then the island would have to be smaller.

As mentioned before, the consultant will probably have to give up on the symmetrical drawer layout.

Honestly, I would really like a corner like that because I would feel more sheltered in the kitchen behind it... But that’s a matter of taste!

What’s more important is that you set up your kitchen the way you want it, making sure the ergonomics work. With the side-by-side refrigerator as originally planned, the ergonomics are not ideal. If you want a counter, then go for it.

You can always remove a counter later if you no longer need it... (there’s surely a solution for the holes...)