Hello everyone,
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
The final kitchen adjustment by @ypg. I think this is a good solution; the kitchen window at the top of the plan then has full effect. The cooktop would be placed to the left of the tall cabinets on the plan... you could even choose a vented range hood in this setup. I would position the sink opposite, on the right wall. This way, it’s less visible from the sofa, and the area in front of the window serves as a nice prep space between the cooktop and the sink.
H
hanghaus20237 May 2023 15:49I might consider using a room divider to reduce the distance to the TV.
We are still in discussions with the developer.
So far, we have had two kitchen planning appointments (at the kitchen showroom) and had a rough proposal based on this one:
And another rough proposal based on this one:
We liked the second proposal much better once it was fully planned out, and after sleeping on it a few times, we prefer the dining table closer to the kitchen instead of swapping the living and dining areas (which was the original idea of the first plan).
The kitchen planner and my husband both think it makes more sense for the kitchen door to open inward, even though the dishwasher is there. This is roughly where the plan stands right now.
Besides that, we have received approval from the developer for an additional window on the ground floor along the long wall, with a fixed lower section and an openable upper section. My husband thinks this is better regarding dirt anyway, while I’m a bit sad about losing the shortcut to the garage. But at least more natural light is a definite plus. I’ve asked again why this is the case (the email only went out today, so no reply yet). My husband is happy with it, and in my opinion, the dining table also works better with more light there.
We haven’t made any requests regarding the staircase. I actually don’t want to, because I see the domino effect it would cause (especially upstairs), and my husband is too lazy to deal with it himself. We are basically at the point where there is a finished plan from the developer, and any changes mean paying for planning hours, etc., and especially upstairs, that would be quite a lot. It’s also generally known that “custom planning with a developer who doesn’t usually do that” often doesn’t lead to ideal results. Honestly, I’d rather save that money for other things right now, such as preparing for photovoltaic solar panels and a wallbox, or a toilet with bidet function. Just putting it plainly.
So far, we have had two kitchen planning appointments (at the kitchen showroom) and had a rough proposal based on this one:
And another rough proposal based on this one:
We liked the second proposal much better once it was fully planned out, and after sleeping on it a few times, we prefer the dining table closer to the kitchen instead of swapping the living and dining areas (which was the original idea of the first plan).
The kitchen planner and my husband both think it makes more sense for the kitchen door to open inward, even though the dishwasher is there. This is roughly where the plan stands right now.
Besides that, we have received approval from the developer for an additional window on the ground floor along the long wall, with a fixed lower section and an openable upper section. My husband thinks this is better regarding dirt anyway, while I’m a bit sad about losing the shortcut to the garage. But at least more natural light is a definite plus. I’ve asked again why this is the case (the email only went out today, so no reply yet). My husband is happy with it, and in my opinion, the dining table also works better with more light there.
We haven’t made any requests regarding the staircase. I actually don’t want to, because I see the domino effect it would cause (especially upstairs), and my husband is too lazy to deal with it himself. We are basically at the point where there is a finished plan from the developer, and any changes mean paying for planning hours, etc., and especially upstairs, that would be quite a lot. It’s also generally known that “custom planning with a developer who doesn’t usually do that” often doesn’t lead to ideal results. Honestly, I’d rather save that money for other things right now, such as preparing for photovoltaic solar panels and a wallbox, or a toilet with bidet function. Just putting it plainly.
mayglow schrieb:
Just to put it simply.mayglow schrieb:
For all changes, planning hours, etc. must be paid for.Do you have to pay extra for custom planning? If that’s the case, I can understand it well… though I probably used the same stairwell opening, only the staircase would be different. The staircase builder handles that anyway (with an additional charge).ypg schrieb:
Do you have to pay extra for custom planning? At least partly. For relocating the wall between the kitchen and hallway (and we hadn’t even asked about the door yet), they had pre-checked it and said, for example: Yes, it’s basically possible and "The HVAC specialist would need to recalculate the heating load for both rooms, about 1.5 hours of planning effort." [and if we want to implement it this way, they can send us a quote]. We only requested the quote today (because we wanted to be more certain about what we want before asking for multiple options), so I don’t yet know the exact cost. The door will be an additional cost as well 🙂
Ultimately, there is the standard plan. If no one requests any special features or the townhouse hasn’t been sold yet before construction starts, the entire block of townhouses—or even both blocks—is built according to a standard template. (And the duplexes also have very similar planning in some cases.) That’s one plan for about 16 houses or so. They only have to plan and calculate once, and then it’s repeated that many times. (That’s not unusual for this type of model, even with other townhouse providers when they develop a whole project.) If you stick close to the standard, it can actually be quite cost-effective. But the further you deviate, the less cost-efficient it becomes. From all we’ve seen, the scope of custom planning is usually limited to "yes, you can move the drywall partitions and relocate the power outlets."
Regarding the staircase, at least from sales at the start, it was said "the stairs are fixed," and combined with "we see the same straight staircase in all the floor plans in the development," I can’t really get my hopes up. Even if they would do it, I would expect significant surcharges. There’s also a certain risk with too much custom planning there. Personally, I’m still undecided whether I even prefer that or not, at least on the ground floor. (And upstairs, I see the complications.) That puts me in the "why bother" zone... My husband says, "You can always ask, we don’t have to go through with it," but when I said, "Okay, you handle it," nothing happened :p Well, for now I want to get a quote for the window and 1-2 other items we asked about first. Then we’ll see how much money and motivation I have left afterwards 😉
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