Hello everyone,
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
mayglow schrieb:
The ground floor was almost completely built with masonry at that point (I initially thought it would be cast concrete, but apparently not). I only see the concrete wall that separates the toilet from the stairwell and the fridge from the cloakroom. And above that, the partition wall of the storage room.
mayglow schrieb:
The other two parties we spoke with made it a 1.20m (4 feet) half-wall; I think we actually want to remove it completely and maybe have a 10cm (4 inch) edge at tub height instead. No, a 1.20m (4 feet) half-wall sounds good; that’s the head end of the tub. Make the drywall construction on the long side of the tub also 1.20m (4 feet), and leave a wide recessed shelf for bath salts there.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
We are currently thinking a bit about the outdoor area. Since it’s a pre-planned townhouse development and generally not a large plot, we don’t have much influence over some things, or there are more done deals compared to what an individual home builder might have. Basically, there is always the recommendation to plan the outdoors as well, but moving the house or similar options were never really on the table for us.
I mostly only have small partial views myself, so apologies in advance. Here is a bit more of the surroundings added with my excellent Paint skills (we are marked in red). The railway tracks might be a bit lower, but we definitely are above them — I could check if I can find elevation data. Otherwise, directly south of us is just a neighbor’s garage and not much else.
In our ground floor plan, you can see the whole plot, although overall dimensions are missing:
Then we have this section with a few more contour lines of our garden (Nope, I don’t have a larger section either, would like to get one, I will check if I can obtain that). So, our plot has a slight slope (about 90cm (35 inches) along the length of the plot).
On the right side, marked in green, is our mandatory hedge, which is specified in an urban development agreement: Hornbeam hedge facing the street with 5 plants spaced 1m (3 feet) apart.
The developer is doing the following for us:
- Essentially, during earthworks, "height differences to the development and new construction levels will be adjusted" and "In the area of open spaces and gardens, height compensation will be done using locally available soil or, if necessary, delivered soil/topsoil." Also later in the contract: "Terrain modeling will be carried out as required on-site." (which I assume means creating the slope.)
- Partition wall to the neighbor made of sand-lime brick masonry with flush pointing
- Paving the terrace (here’s the question if we want to extend it, and if yes, by how much)
- Planting the mandatory hedge (we would actually like to have an access to the street there, like a gate in the hedge or similar, but we’ll see if we can resolve that with the city after handover or if the developer can still do it)
- (Not included here) Paving of the driveway (+ prefabricated garage)
At some point, someone from the developer will probably approach us (at least that was announced, if I remember correctly), possibly to discuss if we want to enlarge the terrace and maybe also about the slope. It doesn’t hurt to start thinking about this in advance.
Some of our neighbors apparently requested terrace extensions, roughly like this:
Personally, I think having a green strip next to the terrace isn’t bad at all. You don’t have to pave everything. But how wide should it be at a minimum? 50cm (20 inches)? 80cm (31 inches)? Will anything grow there? (As shown at the very top, the terrace faces almost due south and there is no tall building in the south or anything like that.) At the same time, I’m thinking, it probably needs to fit the size of the paving slabs (which we do not know yet). But my current idea would be more like this:
And then place a small flower bed and/or a herb planter or something similar on the left/right side? Honestly, we have zero experience with gardens and such, but I think our plot is manageable enough that we can just experiment. In the worst case, it won’t be perfect.
Regarding the slope, my rough idea is "something like shown makes sense and then plant it." It’s not ideal for the garden to be “set lower” and look toward the neighbor’s garage, but with some greenery planted, I think it will be fine.
Then there is our mandatory hedge. There is an urban development agreement that requires it. Our terrace is also on the second row of houses, and I find it a bit strange that we no longer have direct access to public land from there (except through the garage). On the other hand, if we get too loud there, we might have to grant our neighbors right of passage through our garden, so maybe that’s not a good reason to avoid it. But basically, I would like to be able to access the street from there when needed with bikes or garden tools, even if it means a small step. I think then we would have to come up with some compensatory measure for the lost section of the hedge (presumably with a maintenance agreement). The question is what would be suitable, like a hedge by the parking space? The hedge to the townhouse neighbor? Planting a tree? We should also consider how wide the gap should be and how many plants would need relocating. I mean, this might all be irrelevant if the city doesn’t agree, but it would probably be good to have a proposal when we ask. Fundamentally, we could either try to install a gate, something like this:
or try something fancy like a hedge arch?
On one hand, it feels a bit strange to think “already” about the garden at this stage. On the other hand, we need to have some idea of what we want in case we want to ask the developer for changes later.
I mostly only have small partial views myself, so apologies in advance. Here is a bit more of the surroundings added with my excellent Paint skills (we are marked in red). The railway tracks might be a bit lower, but we definitely are above them — I could check if I can find elevation data. Otherwise, directly south of us is just a neighbor’s garage and not much else.
In our ground floor plan, you can see the whole plot, although overall dimensions are missing:
Then we have this section with a few more contour lines of our garden (Nope, I don’t have a larger section either, would like to get one, I will check if I can obtain that). So, our plot has a slight slope (about 90cm (35 inches) along the length of the plot).
On the right side, marked in green, is our mandatory hedge, which is specified in an urban development agreement: Hornbeam hedge facing the street with 5 plants spaced 1m (3 feet) apart.
The developer is doing the following for us:
- Essentially, during earthworks, "height differences to the development and new construction levels will be adjusted" and "In the area of open spaces and gardens, height compensation will be done using locally available soil or, if necessary, delivered soil/topsoil." Also later in the contract: "Terrain modeling will be carried out as required on-site." (which I assume means creating the slope.)
- Partition wall to the neighbor made of sand-lime brick masonry with flush pointing
- Paving the terrace (here’s the question if we want to extend it, and if yes, by how much)
- Planting the mandatory hedge (we would actually like to have an access to the street there, like a gate in the hedge or similar, but we’ll see if we can resolve that with the city after handover or if the developer can still do it)
- (Not included here) Paving of the driveway (+ prefabricated garage)
At some point, someone from the developer will probably approach us (at least that was announced, if I remember correctly), possibly to discuss if we want to enlarge the terrace and maybe also about the slope. It doesn’t hurt to start thinking about this in advance.
Some of our neighbors apparently requested terrace extensions, roughly like this:
Personally, I think having a green strip next to the terrace isn’t bad at all. You don’t have to pave everything. But how wide should it be at a minimum? 50cm (20 inches)? 80cm (31 inches)? Will anything grow there? (As shown at the very top, the terrace faces almost due south and there is no tall building in the south or anything like that.) At the same time, I’m thinking, it probably needs to fit the size of the paving slabs (which we do not know yet). But my current idea would be more like this:
And then place a small flower bed and/or a herb planter or something similar on the left/right side? Honestly, we have zero experience with gardens and such, but I think our plot is manageable enough that we can just experiment. In the worst case, it won’t be perfect.
Regarding the slope, my rough idea is "something like shown makes sense and then plant it." It’s not ideal for the garden to be “set lower” and look toward the neighbor’s garage, but with some greenery planted, I think it will be fine.
Then there is our mandatory hedge. There is an urban development agreement that requires it. Our terrace is also on the second row of houses, and I find it a bit strange that we no longer have direct access to public land from there (except through the garage). On the other hand, if we get too loud there, we might have to grant our neighbors right of passage through our garden, so maybe that’s not a good reason to avoid it. But basically, I would like to be able to access the street from there when needed with bikes or garden tools, even if it means a small step. I think then we would have to come up with some compensatory measure for the lost section of the hedge (presumably with a maintenance agreement). The question is what would be suitable, like a hedge by the parking space? The hedge to the townhouse neighbor? Planting a tree? We should also consider how wide the gap should be and how many plants would need relocating. I mean, this might all be irrelevant if the city doesn’t agree, but it would probably be good to have a proposal when we ask. Fundamentally, we could either try to install a gate, something like this:
or try something fancy like a hedge arch?
On one hand, it feels a bit strange to think “already” about the garden at this stage. On the other hand, we need to have some idea of what we want in case we want to ask the developer for changes later.
mayglow schrieb:
I actually think having a strip of greenery next to the patio isn’t a bad idea. You don’t have to cover everything with paving, after all. I agree, and for more ideas I recommend checking out the local “colorful gardening chat thread” (or whatever it’s called—I’m just a reader there since I have two left green thumbs).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
C
Costruttrice28 Aug 2023 15:05We also had a gate from our garden to the street, which meant interrupting the hedge. To maintain privacy at that spot, we planted the hedge plants about 1.5 m (5 feet) back from the gate, toward the garden, so you could access the gate from the garden side and from the street you would see the gate framed by the hedge plants. I hope this makes sense… Maybe this could be an option for you as well if you have enough space. That way, the city would still have its hedge—just a few plants set further back—and you would have your gate.
W
WilderSueden28 Aug 2023 16:14Your sketch might conflict with the slope.
I also don’t believe in any compensatory measures for transplanting a beech tree from your hedge. Whether you want privacy screening at the gate is something you need to decide. I would generally suggest starting without it since any path around the corner is inconvenient and will take up space in your already small garden. Let the house be completed first, then sit on the terrace and consider where the gate should be located.
As for the terrace itself, I would only make it large enough to comfortably fit the table. For birthday parties or other gatherings, you can always set up a folding bench table set on the grass. Definitely include planting in front of any partition walls.
I also don’t believe in any compensatory measures for transplanting a beech tree from your hedge. Whether you want privacy screening at the gate is something you need to decide. I would generally suggest starting without it since any path around the corner is inconvenient and will take up space in your already small garden. Let the house be completed first, then sit on the terrace and consider where the gate should be located.
As for the terrace itself, I would only make it large enough to comfortably fit the table. For birthday parties or other gatherings, you can always set up a folding bench table set on the grass. Definitely include planting in front of any partition walls.
Similar topics