Hello everyone,
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
We are currently reviewing whether to make any changes to the standard floor plan from our home builder for our end-of-terrace house. There are stricter guidelines that I’m already sure will disappoint some forum members. Roughly, we’ve been told that exterior walls and the façade, including windows and exterior doors, cannot be altered, and load-bearing walls cannot be moved. This mainly concerns the staircase and stair wall. Most other interior walls, as far as we know, are movable. In principle, we could also move in with the unmodified standard layout, but we do see 1-2 points with potential for improvement (though maybe in the end this just fuels the Spec House Building - Small Changes, Unintended Consequences thread).
I will still fill out the questionnaire, even though most of it cannot be changed for us (in particular Section 1 on the development plan is more the home builder’s area).
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size – 207 m² (2,230 sq ft)
Slope – slight incline, I don’t have exact survey data, but we can’t change anything at the house entrances anyway.
Site coverage ratio – 0.4
Floor area ratio – 0.8
Building envelope, building line, and setback – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Edge development – not relevant since we cannot change the external shell
Number of parking spaces (already included) – garage plus parking space in front
Number of storeys – 2
Roof type – gable roof
Architectural style –
Orientation – north/south
Maximum heights / limits – not relevant
Other conditions: Hornbeam hedge along the cul-de-sac on our property (on the west side; in the floor plans it appears on the right because they are not north-oriented)
Homeowners’ Requirements
Architectural style, roof type, building type: fixed by the home builder
Basement, floors: usable basement + 2 full stories + converted attic (already determined by the builder)
Number of occupants, ages: currently 2 (31 and 32); planning for 1-2 children
Space needs on ground and upper floors:
Office: family use or home office? Home office, both partly working remotely. Ideally, a separate space for each would be great, but if that’s not possible with potentially 2 children, it’s manageable.
Guest bedrooms per year: about 3-4 times a year
Open or closed layout: medium? Open transition between kitchen and living area is a must, but overall, some walls are okay.
Conservative or modern building style: –
Open kitchen, kitchen island: tends to “not fully closed” (see above), but we don’t necessarily need an island if something else is more practical or cost-effective.
Number of dining seats: for 4 people
Fireplace: no
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony / roof terrace: no
Garage / carport: garage included
Utility garden / greenhouse: no (maybe a small bed later we’d do ourselves)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, also reasons why certain things should or shouldn’t be included:
We are both partly working remotely. Currently, we have an office and a desk in the living room. If possible, I’d prefer not to keep working in the living room. If two adults move in, it’s absolutely no problem; with one child it’s probably still fine, with two children… well, by then things might have changed anyway. I feel we’ll find a solution, and if someone locks themselves away in the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet on the first floor (where the walls are still adjustable) or gets a desk in the bedroom, that might work.
House Design
Surroundings: To the south are garages for neighboring terrace houses, then a turning area (end of the cul-de-sac), followed by some individual trees and other detached houses. To the east is our block. Then a few small trees and a railway line (several meters lower). To the west, on our property, there is a city-required hornbeam hedge. We will try to negotiate a passage to the street (for bikes and so on). Since the second escape route on the ground floor is via the terrace, I see some chances, but city officials aren’t always easy.
Planning by:
- Home builder
What do you like especially? Why?
- I see the plan working for us both if the family plan doesn’t happen (then it’s very generous) and with 1-2 children as well.
What don’t you like? Why?
- Ground floor: (main pain point) Entrance is relatively narrow with little cloakroom space. The peninsula kitchen feels too small to work well (and probably requires an expensive extractor in the peninsula). The distance from the sofa to the TV is huge. The basement access is in the living room. We’ll probably manage some kind of furnishing on the ground floor, but right now it doesn’t exactly feel “yes, this is perfect.”
- Upper floor: We’ve debated whether to enlarge the 4 m² (43 sq ft) closet slightly to potentially use it later as an overflow office, but actually we find it as planned not bad at all (and initially more practical).
- Attic: The “landing” could be another possible office space if children come; we considered whether to separate it right away with a wall and door or leave it as shown.
So actually: except for the ground floor, we are quite satisfied; everything else is in the range of “if we want the jack-of-all-trades, maybe some changes could be made – or we keep it as is and see if the need arises.”
If you had to give up something, which details/extensions:
- We can give up: changes to the upper floor and attic
- We cannot give up: at least 1 office
Why is the design as it is now? e.g.
Standard plan from the home builder
What do you think makes it particularly good or bad?
I think it’s a solid floor plan for young families, but the ground floor worries me a bit. I feel maybe a different staircase shape would have helped, but as far as I’ve been told, that cannot be changed.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
How do we best arrange the ground floor? Should we still make some changes here?
Ideas for potential changes to the ground floor
Maybe reduce the kitchen size and straighten the hallway wall? (We’ve discussed this idea in the kitchen forum but haven’t talked to the planner yet.) The scale is off here (I think my cabinets are too large). The rough structural width in the kitchen at the narrowest point is 248 cm (98 inches), so roughly 240 cm (94 inches) minus about 130 cm (51 inches) for both kitchen sides would leave 110 cm (43 inches) aisle width. Also, the window would be moved to the corner. In return, there would be more cloakroom space in the hallway. Bad idea? Opinions?
Another question is a bit… can we reduce the distance between sofa and TV? I’ve just sketched in our current furniture; it would look roughly like this (sofa 275 x 220 cm (108 x 87 inches)).
Ideas so far include putting a shelf behind the sofa (but that blocks the terrace door more). Any other ideas?
Best regards
I was just writing a post out of boredom on the train, but I don't have the original plan with me right now. The door is planned to open in the opposite direction:
(the number 10 in brackets is irrelevant; they mentioned that a 15cm (6 inches) wall thickness might be needed, but apparently not)
Disadvantage: it could be annoying in the kitchen. Advantage: less awkwardness in the hallway.
Ideally, I would prefer a sliding door recessed into the partition wall. But well, the standard door option is clearly much cheaper for us (and maybe the other option would have complicated the electrical planning?). If it ends up being really annoying, we’ll either remove the door or replace it eventually with a folding sliding door or something like that.
(the number 10 in brackets is irrelevant; they mentioned that a 15cm (6 inches) wall thickness might be needed, but apparently not)
Disadvantage: it could be annoying in the kitchen. Advantage: less awkwardness in the hallway.
Ideally, I would prefer a sliding door recessed into the partition wall. But well, the standard door option is clearly much cheaper for us (and maybe the other option would have complicated the electrical planning?). If it ends up being really annoying, we’ll either remove the door or replace it eventually with a folding sliding door or something like that.
A sliding door in a partition wall takes up a lot of space. In a hallway, gaining 20cm (8 inches) or less makes a significant difference.
A sliding door is also not always easy to open or close, whereas a hinged door can be simply pushed shut.
In most cases where a sliding door is planned, I would advise against it. Most people choose them because they are trendy… just like recessed ceiling lights. A sliding door can make sense, but only if it is designed according to the access points.
A sliding door is also not always easy to open or close, whereas a hinged door can be simply pushed shut.
In most cases where a sliding door is planned, I would advise against it. Most people choose them because they are trendy… just like recessed ceiling lights. A sliding door can make sense, but only if it is designed according to the access points.
ypg schrieb:
A sliding door in a partition wall takes up a lot of space. Gaining 20 cm (8 inches) or less in a hallway can make a big difference.I meant something that is recessed into the drywall partition, instead of sliding in front of the wall. That way, you barely lose any wall space in the hallway, and usually the drywall partitions don’t have to be significantly thicker (these systems are available starting at 10 cm (4 inches) wall thickness). But yes, it’s not a perfect solution and would definitely be more expensive than the standard door our builder offers anyway. (I only looked it up quickly for a first impression, didn’t request any quotes.) So, we considered it but eventually dropped the idea. Having the door slide in front of the wall was not an option for me either.B
Bertram10018 Jun 2023 15:17If a sliding door in front of the wall isn’t an option, then a hinged door is the alternative. Personally, I would much prefer a sliding door over the current plan you have. But of course, that’s a matter of personal taste.
My sliding door actually cost more than a hinged door, but not by much. I had it installed afterwards at my own expense by a carpenter.
This is what it looks like from my dining area. There are nicer options, but I don’t find it bad either.
My sliding door actually cost more than a hinged door, but not by much. I had it installed afterwards at my own expense by a carpenter.
This is what it looks like from my dining area. There are nicer options, but I don’t find it bad either.
mayglow schrieb:
I meant something that is recessed into the drywall instead of running in front of the wall.But then you need two of those for a "recessed" one.mayglow schrieb:
the drywall also doesn’t get significantly thicker (there are versions starting from 10cm wall thickness)… with the door panel in between and clearance for the guide. That adds about 20cm (8 inches) more to the space usage.
And a surface-mounted system also takes up space. It not only adds the door panel thickness but also the guide thickness on top. In our case, with the one shown by @Bertram100, it is exactly 9cm (3.5 inches). That would be noticeable in the wardrobe.
ypg schrieb:
But you need two of those for a “recessed” one. I don’t quite understand. I thought that you simply replace part of the stud frame, which you would normally use for drywall partitions, with the door’s recessed frame, and then just cover it with drywall as usual. But maybe my understanding is wrong.
I quickly googled a manufacturer, and that’s how it sounded (the source is Wingburg’s website, but there are others as well).
I mean, if other elements were planned inside the wall (like wiring, insulation, etc.), then the minimum thickness (specified as CW profile 75 mm (3 inches), single drywall layer = 10 cm (4 inches) wall thickness) probably won’t be enough, and maybe one would really have to build a double structure, or something like that. But at least my understanding was that this isn’t necessarily the case.
As I said, it’s not really relevant for us now (but maybe it is for others).
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