ᐅ Realistic Cost Estimate: Single-Family Home with Challenging Site Access
Created on: 20 Jan 2023 10:50
S
schmeissrein
Hello everyone,
I have been following this forum for a while and first of all, a big thank you to everyone who shares their advice here and sometimes also speaks hard truths. I didn’t originally want to create a new thread but intended to form an opinion based on other discussions. However, you convinced me that this building project is too individual for that. So here is our plan:
- Building a new single-family house in the far north of Germany (Schleswig-Flensburg region).
- Plot size is over 1000sqm (10,764 sq ft).
- Total square meters are not so important as long as the layout works.
- Basement is not planned.
What we would like:
- Open-plan kitchen-living area of at least 36m² (388 sq ft).
- Guest room (at least 10m² / 108 sq ft) and small guest bathroom with shower on the ground floor, so that in old age, with disability, or a broken leg, the ground floor can be used independently and possibly serve as a bedroom.
- Utility room / storage room / pantry with heat pump of at least 8m² (86 sq ft) (KfW 40 standard would be great, of course).
- Upper floor with three rooms (1 office, 1 master bedroom, 1 child’s room) each at least 14m² (151 sq ft) and one bathroom. Our dream would be a “walk-in” (what a silly word – aren’t all showers walk-in?) shower to avoid having to clean those limescale-rusty, annoying shower enclosures.
- We could contribute labor for garden landscaping and painting/wallpapering; otherwise, we would prefer a turnkey build.
As for the house style, regionally typical Frisian houses or captain’s houses (with all the “cute” features like small gables, etc.) are in consideration, or also not completely unimaginative “normal” single-family houses. We are not afraid of Bauhaus-style concrete marvels either, but those tend to be more expensive. In terms of fittings, no “gold-plated faucets” and no smart home – but decent and presentable.
The big BUT: the plot is not connected to utilities, and the distance to the street is about 65m (213 ft), of which 50m (164 ft) is a paved driveway and paved parking area that would have to be dug up (across another property). The connection costs and incidental construction costs worry us quite a bit. Does anyone have experience with such a “mammoth connection” for a relatively small building project? What realistic costs should we expect for both?
We would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this project, thank you very much in advance!
I have been following this forum for a while and first of all, a big thank you to everyone who shares their advice here and sometimes also speaks hard truths. I didn’t originally want to create a new thread but intended to form an opinion based on other discussions. However, you convinced me that this building project is too individual for that. So here is our plan:
- Building a new single-family house in the far north of Germany (Schleswig-Flensburg region).
- Plot size is over 1000sqm (10,764 sq ft).
- Total square meters are not so important as long as the layout works.
- Basement is not planned.
What we would like:
- Open-plan kitchen-living area of at least 36m² (388 sq ft).
- Guest room (at least 10m² / 108 sq ft) and small guest bathroom with shower on the ground floor, so that in old age, with disability, or a broken leg, the ground floor can be used independently and possibly serve as a bedroom.
- Utility room / storage room / pantry with heat pump of at least 8m² (86 sq ft) (KfW 40 standard would be great, of course).
- Upper floor with three rooms (1 office, 1 master bedroom, 1 child’s room) each at least 14m² (151 sq ft) and one bathroom. Our dream would be a “walk-in” (what a silly word – aren’t all showers walk-in?) shower to avoid having to clean those limescale-rusty, annoying shower enclosures.
- We could contribute labor for garden landscaping and painting/wallpapering; otherwise, we would prefer a turnkey build.
As for the house style, regionally typical Frisian houses or captain’s houses (with all the “cute” features like small gables, etc.) are in consideration, or also not completely unimaginative “normal” single-family houses. We are not afraid of Bauhaus-style concrete marvels either, but those tend to be more expensive. In terms of fittings, no “gold-plated faucets” and no smart home – but decent and presentable.
The big BUT: the plot is not connected to utilities, and the distance to the street is about 65m (213 ft), of which 50m (164 ft) is a paved driveway and paved parking area that would have to be dug up (across another property). The connection costs and incidental construction costs worry us quite a bit. Does anyone have experience with such a “mammoth connection” for a relatively small building project? What realistic costs should we expect for both?
We would greatly appreciate any thoughts on this project, thank you very much in advance!
schmeissrein16 Apr 2023 19:28Oh yes, I still need to explain that. I don’t even remember which update I shared last because so much has changed during the planning process. Upstairs is now arranged like this: there are two children’s bedrooms, but only one child. So one room is for sleeping, the other for playing. At the moment, we don’t plan to have a second child, but only with about 80-90% certainty, and who knows what the next two or three years will bring. Planning two large children’s bedrooms now for that 10-20% possibility didn’t feel right to us. If it does happen, each child will have a small bedroom and share a playroom. The office can then, as you @K a t j a suggested, be combined with the guest room. We originally planned without a walk-in closet and with one large children’s bedroom, but the two dormer gables upstairs make it impossible or impractical to just move walls around freely.
@xMisterDx
Not annoying at all. We also don’t want our child to be stuck in a tiny, cramped room 🙂
@xMisterDx
Not annoying at all. We also don’t want our child to be stuck in a tiny, cramped room 🙂
X
xMisterDx16 Apr 2023 21:21Tough situation, yes. But the idea of having 2 bedrooms and a playroom—you can forget about that.
That works while the kids are young, but they do grow up, and it’s rare for them to move out by age 18.
I also question the guest room. It stays empty 98% of the year. You can get through a six-week leg injury on the living room couch... and in case of a disability or something worse, there are solutions. You can simply partition off part of the living room with drywall. There are options.
I wouldn’t design my house based on the possibility of becoming seriously ill and then not being able to access the upper floor. That would be by far the least of your problems.
That works while the kids are young, but they do grow up, and it’s rare for them to move out by age 18.
I also question the guest room. It stays empty 98% of the year. You can get through a six-week leg injury on the living room couch... and in case of a disability or something worse, there are solutions. You can simply partition off part of the living room with drywall. There are options.
I wouldn’t design my house based on the possibility of becoming seriously ill and then not being able to access the upper floor. That would be by far the least of your problems.
It is very difficult to plan if you don’t clearly define your needs. At the moment, I see a rather oversized house with many small rooms that may not actually be necessary. This often results in building too large while still feeling quite cramped.
I don’t know how much time you have left, but this should be decided before the meeting with the architect.
I don’t know how much time you have left, but this should be decided before the meeting with the architect.
schmeissrein17 Apr 2023 08:39@xMisterDx
Opinions on this can vary a lot. I tend to think that a playroom and a bedroom might be unnecessary at first because very young children usually just want to play where their parents are. Later on, it can be quite convenient to leave distracting toys and school stuff behind in the evening and have a room dedicated solely to relaxation. For the teenage years, I see the advantage of separating the gaming area from the sleeping space, so the night isn’t spent uncontrollably in front of a screen. Space psychologists often emphasize that a sleeping area should be designed to minimize stimuli. Removing the room downstairs wouldn’t help us since we actually need more space upstairs, which would become even smaller. I’m also in favor of considering physical limitations now, while we’re still fit, rather than postponing it until we’re older and possibly much poorer. It doesn’t have to be a severe disability. Even with knee or hip osteoarthritis (which is quite common!), you’re already glad not to have stairs, even though you’re far from needing care. I’ve seen it too often: people move to the fourth floor, 30 years pass, and suddenly they can’t leave the house because they thought "I’ll deal with old age later," and they can’t afford the rent anymore.
@K a t j a
The real need is, unfortunately, to avoid making fixed decisions right now and instead keep options open. Especially the decision about having a second child is not necessarily one to be made during the first year of the first child’s life. Many of our friends initially wanted only one, then two, then back to one, and ended up with three I believe having fewer large rooms makes you less flexible than having several smaller ones. What would you do in our situation?
Opinions on this can vary a lot. I tend to think that a playroom and a bedroom might be unnecessary at first because very young children usually just want to play where their parents are. Later on, it can be quite convenient to leave distracting toys and school stuff behind in the evening and have a room dedicated solely to relaxation. For the teenage years, I see the advantage of separating the gaming area from the sleeping space, so the night isn’t spent uncontrollably in front of a screen. Space psychologists often emphasize that a sleeping area should be designed to minimize stimuli. Removing the room downstairs wouldn’t help us since we actually need more space upstairs, which would become even smaller. I’m also in favor of considering physical limitations now, while we’re still fit, rather than postponing it until we’re older and possibly much poorer. It doesn’t have to be a severe disability. Even with knee or hip osteoarthritis (which is quite common!), you’re already glad not to have stairs, even though you’re far from needing care. I’ve seen it too often: people move to the fourth floor, 30 years pass, and suddenly they can’t leave the house because they thought "I’ll deal with old age later," and they can’t afford the rent anymore.
@K a t j a
The real need is, unfortunately, to avoid making fixed decisions right now and instead keep options open. Especially the decision about having a second child is not necessarily one to be made during the first year of the first child’s life. Many of our friends initially wanted only one, then two, then back to one, and ended up with three I believe having fewer large rooms makes you less flexible than having several smaller ones. What would you do in our situation?
W
WilderSueden17 Apr 2023 09:11If you want to keep all options open, in the end, you won’t achieve anything reasonable. In the best case, you’ll have 200 expensive square meters (2,150 square feet) that feel like 120m² (1,290 square feet). In the worst case, not even those will work properly.
Let’s be honest: when you’re older, you won’t live in that ground floor if things get tough. You won’t be able to move around in the 5m² (54 sq ft) narrow bathroom with a walker, and you can forget about the 10m² (108 sq ft) guest room. A double bed requires 2 by 2 meters (6.5 by 6.5 feet) plus about one meter (3 feet) of space around it. That fills the room completely, leaving no space for wardrobes. If you want to plan for old age, you need to make the rooms generous, not tight. Two meters (6.5 feet) between the bed and the wall so you can turn around with a walker. Wider-than-standard doors. The bathroom must be considerably larger.
Have the courage to leave some things out. Guests usually stay on weekends and can sleep on a sofa bed in the study. Just like that, you save a room. The centrally located staircase and the two captain’s gables make shifting rooms incredibly difficult. I would reconsider the layout and possibly remove some elements.
Let’s be honest: when you’re older, you won’t live in that ground floor if things get tough. You won’t be able to move around in the 5m² (54 sq ft) narrow bathroom with a walker, and you can forget about the 10m² (108 sq ft) guest room. A double bed requires 2 by 2 meters (6.5 by 6.5 feet) plus about one meter (3 feet) of space around it. That fills the room completely, leaving no space for wardrobes. If you want to plan for old age, you need to make the rooms generous, not tight. Two meters (6.5 feet) between the bed and the wall so you can turn around with a walker. Wider-than-standard doors. The bathroom must be considerably larger.
Have the courage to leave some things out. Guests usually stay on weekends and can sleep on a sofa bed in the study. Just like that, you save a room. The centrally located staircase and the two captain’s gables make shifting rooms incredibly difficult. I would reconsider the layout and possibly remove some elements.
X
xMisterDx17 Apr 2023 09:51My grandmother was still crawling up to the upper floor to take a shower at 94. People can really make a fuss…
But these were just tips. If you don’t want to listen to a father of two who shared a playroom with his brother during childhood, that’s your choice. 😉
Be clear about what you want or consider installing drywall in certain areas on the upper floor from the start. That way, you can still modify the room layout if needed.
Planning a house for two children the way you’re doing it will likely result in two teenagers living in cramped spaces. Usually, teenagers have their own group of friends and don’t want to share a “playroom” anymore. This is especially true when they are a boy and a girl. You can forget about that from around age 6 or 7 onward.
And if I had five euros every time I heard parents in their mid-30s with a baby say, “One child is enough; we don’t want a second”…
I’d be living on my own island in the South Pacific by now. 😉
But these were just tips. If you don’t want to listen to a father of two who shared a playroom with his brother during childhood, that’s your choice. 😉
Be clear about what you want or consider installing drywall in certain areas on the upper floor from the start. That way, you can still modify the room layout if needed.
Planning a house for two children the way you’re doing it will likely result in two teenagers living in cramped spaces. Usually, teenagers have their own group of friends and don’t want to share a “playroom” anymore. This is especially true when they are a boy and a girl. You can forget about that from around age 6 or 7 onward.
And if I had five euros every time I heard parents in their mid-30s with a baby say, “One child is enough; we don’t want a second”…
I’d be living on my own island in the South Pacific by now. 😉
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