Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
S
spooky081517 May 2018 13:55The size of the heat pump was calculated by the construction company with a "sufficient safety margin" upwards... I don’t have more details.
Buffer tank: only the integrated 180 liters (48 gallons), no external one.
Single-room controllers throughout the entire house.
Hot water is set to 52 degrees Celsius (126°F).
So, should I be more concerned about the 12,800 compressor pulses – how can this be optimized?
Regarding the meter, I need to take action soon. Any recommendations?
Buffer tank: only the integrated 180 liters (48 gallons), no external one.
Single-room controllers throughout the entire house.
Hot water is set to 52 degrees Celsius (126°F).
So, should I be more concerned about the 12,800 compressor pulses – how can this be optimized?
Regarding the meter, I need to take action soon. Any recommendations?
spooky0815 schrieb:
The size of the heat pump was calculated by the construction company with "sufficient safety margin" upwards... I don't know more than that.
Buffer tank is only the built-in 180 liters (47 gallons), no external one.
Single room controllers throughout the entire house.
Hot water is set to 52 degrees Celsius (126°F).
So I should be more concerned about the 12,800 compressor starts – how can this be optimized?
Regarding the meter, I need to take action soon. Any recommendations?Compared to the operating time, the number of starts is way too high, the other values actually look okay. I solved the problem of many starts (which I had initially) simply by increasing the hysteresis of the heating flow temperature; it was set quite low by default, causing the heat pump to cycle frequently. Raising it by 1.5 K made a huge difference. Since the heat storage is mainly in the screed, it made no difference to the room temperature (which remained constant), but the heating system now runs longer cycles.
M
Mastermind117 May 2018 19:28If the heating engineer has planned with excess capacity, your heat pump will continue to cycle on and off frequently. Heat pumps should not be sized with large reserves—that’s outdated thinking.
There aren’t many options in this situation.
Is there a hydraulic balancing in place?
However, right now is not the ideal season for adjustments. You’ll have better opportunities for minor optimizations in the fall.
It doesn’t matter which manufacturer the heat pump is from.
The issue is always the same:
- Oversizing of the heat pump
- Room controllers that are heavily throttled
- Buffer tanks
- Heating curve set too high (to ensure it gets hot)
...
There aren’t many options in this situation.
Is there a hydraulic balancing in place?
However, right now is not the ideal season for adjustments. You’ll have better opportunities for minor optimizations in the fall.
It doesn’t matter which manufacturer the heat pump is from.
The issue is always the same:
- Oversizing of the heat pump
- Room controllers that are heavily throttled
- Buffer tanks
- Heating curve set too high (to ensure it gets hot)
...
@Mastermind, it’s not helpful to complain about things that didn’t happen here (single room, buffer tank, etc.), as that doesn’t contribute to a solution. This is not a general complaint session.
My heat pump is also slightly oversized, but a smaller one would have been problematic for me regarding hot water (the smaller one would have had about 4 kW capacity, and even heating a 180 l (48 gallons) tank would take too long). You can store a huge amount of energy in the screed/floor and house structure, so the first approach here is to adjust the hysteresis so that the heat pump’s cycles last longer. Usually, there is enough energy stored in the screed that it takes a long time for the return flow temperature measured by the heat pump to drop low enough to start the next cycle. It’s similar with the hot water tank, but I suspect most of the frequent cycling comes from the heating system.
My heat pump is also slightly oversized, but a smaller one would have been problematic for me regarding hot water (the smaller one would have had about 4 kW capacity, and even heating a 180 l (48 gallons) tank would take too long). You can store a huge amount of energy in the screed/floor and house structure, so the first approach here is to adjust the hysteresis so that the heat pump’s cycles last longer. Usually, there is enough energy stored in the screed that it takes a long time for the return flow temperature measured by the heat pump to drop low enough to start the next cycle. It’s similar with the hot water tank, but I suspect most of the frequent cycling comes from the heating system.
M
Mastermind117 May 2018 20:02This is not about complaining. These are just simple facts.
But it doesn’t change the following:
Wrong season
Wrong forum
A separate heat pump meter is necessary
To deactivate the ERRs, pipe lengths or the data from the hydraulic balancing (which is now mandatory) are required.
And the mentioned hysteresis is one approach, but not the symptomatically correct procedure.
You should also look at the domestic hot water:
Is there a circulation?
Are there specific times for hot water?
How large is the hot water tank? Or which type is used?
What is the set temperature of the hot water tank?
First of all, the goal is
to achieve balancing with the lowest possible supply temperature, and that without individual room controllers that only disrupt the hydraulics. The aim is to reach the highest possible flow rate so that the heat pump can run for longer periods. This means it is counterproductive to try to save energy by turning down certain rooms... the opposite is actually true.
Hysteresis adjustment is the next step...
Then check the domestic hot water issue.
And make sure a separate meter for the heat pump is installed. That doesn’t cost much. Only in this way can you obtain reliable data to see whether the optimization attempts actually have a positive effect.
With this, you can relate the generated heat amount to the electricity consumption, and thus determine the season’s performance factor (SPF). A ground-source heat pump should reach at least 4+.
Additionally, you can claim this as a craftsman’s invoice for 20% of the service costs in your next income tax return...
But it doesn’t change the following:
Wrong season
Wrong forum
A separate heat pump meter is necessary
To deactivate the ERRs, pipe lengths or the data from the hydraulic balancing (which is now mandatory) are required.
And the mentioned hysteresis is one approach, but not the symptomatically correct procedure.
You should also look at the domestic hot water:
Is there a circulation?
Are there specific times for hot water?
How large is the hot water tank? Or which type is used?
What is the set temperature of the hot water tank?
First of all, the goal is
to achieve balancing with the lowest possible supply temperature, and that without individual room controllers that only disrupt the hydraulics. The aim is to reach the highest possible flow rate so that the heat pump can run for longer periods. This means it is counterproductive to try to save energy by turning down certain rooms... the opposite is actually true.
Hysteresis adjustment is the next step...
Then check the domestic hot water issue.
And make sure a separate meter for the heat pump is installed. That doesn’t cost much. Only in this way can you obtain reliable data to see whether the optimization attempts actually have a positive effect.
With this, you can relate the generated heat amount to the electricity consumption, and thus determine the season’s performance factor (SPF). A ground-source heat pump should reach at least 4+.
Additionally, you can claim this as a craftsman’s invoice for 20% of the service costs in your next income tax return...
Saruss schrieb:
@Mastermind, it’s pointless to complain now about things that didn’t happen here (individual room controls, buffer tanks, etc.), because that does not contribute to a solution. This is not a general complaining session. My heat pump is also slightly oversized, but a smaller one would have been bad for domestic hot water (the smaller would have had about 4 kW capacity, and heating a 180 l (48 US gallons) tank would take too long). You can store huge amounts of energy in the screed/house, so the first solution approach here is to adjust the hysteresis so that the heat pump’s cycles become longer. Then usually there is enough energy in the screed, so it takes a long time until the return temperature measured by the heat pump is cold enough for the next cycle to start. The same applies to the hot water tank, but I suspect the many cycles mostly come from heating.
@spooky0815:
I have just looked up some comparison values:
For just under 4 years: 6600 kWh electricity consumption for:
According to the heat pump, 42 MWh energy (16.2 MWh domestic hot water + 25.8 MWh heating)
With an operating time of 4545 hours and less than 6000 compressor starts.
I have just looked up some comparison values:
For just under 4 years: 6600 kWh electricity consumption for:
According to the heat pump, 42 MWh energy (16.2 MWh domestic hot water + 25.8 MWh heating)
With an operating time of 4545 hours and less than 6000 compressor starts.
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