Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
Fuchur schrieb:
Very simple example calculation:
10 kWp costs about €12,000
Annual production assumed to be 9,000 kWh
With a feed-in tariff of 12.5 cents, that results in €1,125 revenue.
Self-consumption increases the yield, taxes and similar factors reduce it. Just a quick rough estimate. Of course, more details belong in the detailed planning.I can also throw in some factors (insurance / maintenance / performance degradation, etc.). I usually read about roughly 3% losses if you buy a system nowadays, so I’m curious about the details (it’s also hard to get 10 kWp for 12,000 including everything). I’m interested because I’m considering whether to buy a solar system or make a large extra loan repayment. Since solar doesn’t have a “compounding interest effect,” the estimate really needs to be more precise.
What more do you expect? If you want to plan a very specific system and need an exact calculation, you will have to do the math yourself using your individual parameters.
I roughly estimated it for myself using PVGIS and came to the conclusion: yes, it is worthwhile! Whether the final result is 100€ more or less doesn’t matter to me right now. If it does matter to you, you will have to invest more time yourself. Or put the money in a high-yield savings account—then after two minutes of calculating, you will know how much you earn each year.
I don’t trust such precise calculations anyway, since the results are never truly accurate. Do you already know the number of sunshine hours for the next 20 years? Or how many geese will mess up your panels?
I roughly estimated it for myself using PVGIS and came to the conclusion: yes, it is worthwhile! Whether the final result is 100€ more or less doesn’t matter to me right now. If it does matter to you, you will have to invest more time yourself. Or put the money in a high-yield savings account—then after two minutes of calculating, you will know how much you earn each year.
I don’t trust such precise calculations anyway, since the results are never truly accurate. Do you already know the number of sunshine hours for the next 20 years? Or how many geese will mess up your panels?
Fuchur schrieb:
What more do you expect? If you want to plan a very specific system and need an exact calculation, you will have to calculate it yourself using your individual parameters.
I did a rough estimate for myself using PVGIS and came to the conclusion: yes, it’s worth it! Whether the final amount is 100€ more or less doesn’t matter to me right now. If it does for you, you will need to invest more time yourself. Or put the money in a savings account; then you can calculate in two minutes what you earn each year. Nothing. But I don’t like it when 10% is loudly claimed in the forum, and when you recalculate it turns out to be only 5%. Nowadays, that’s called fake news. This forum is supposed to be a place to share real experiences. If you have any, please share them, for example yields over recent years as well as costs and expected maintenance (e.g., inverter) or effort. Anyone can come up with made-up numbers.
Nothing, unless you have a good recommendation for savings accounts with interest above 0.1%.
But I don’t like it when 10% is loudly claimed in the forum, and when you do the math, it’s only 5%. Nowadays, that would be called fake news. This forum is supposed to be for sharing real experiences, so if you have any, please feel free to share them—for example, the returns from recent years as well as costs and expected maintenance (e.g., inverters)/effort. Anyone can make up numbers.
But I don’t like it when 10% is loudly claimed in the forum, and when you do the math, it’s only 5%. Nowadays, that would be called fake news. This forum is supposed to be for sharing real experiences, so if you have any, please feel free to share them—for example, the returns from recent years as well as costs and expected maintenance (e.g., inverters)/effort. Anyone can make up numbers.
I was not talking about the photovoltaic system alone but as part of the package with the ground source heat pump. Unfortunately, the latter is a massive money burner. At the time, I got several quotes and did payback calculations. It never was under 30 years.
You can install a photovoltaic system, which has a return of about 6–10% and is relatively secure. An alternative would be investing in the stock market (e.g., DAX), with a similar return but somewhat higher risk.
You can install a photovoltaic system, which has a return of about 6–10% and is relatively secure. An alternative would be investing in the stock market (e.g., DAX), with a similar return but somewhat higher risk.
Bookstar schrieb:
I wasn’t referring to just the photovoltaic system, but to the package including the ground source heat pump. Unfortunately, the latter is a significant waste of money. I collected several quotes back then and did payback calculations. It was never under 30 years.
A photovoltaic system alone can be done, with a return of about 6-10% and relatively secure. An alternative would be investing in the stock market (e.g. DAX), with a similar return but somewhat higher risk.As a rough comparison: my neighbor, who has a slightly smaller house with an air-to-water heat pump, has annual heating costs about 600-800 euros higher (values from the past 4 years) compared to my ground source heat pump. The drilling, including pipes and everything, cost about 12,000 euros and has a useful life of 50 years. So, the overall package becomes more economical in less than 20 years if electricity prices don’t increase.Similar topics