Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
Hello,
a setback in temperature is not recommended for a well-insulated house. Essentially, only your heat storage— the screed—cools down, and this then needs to be reheated. On normal nights, this usually does not make much difference, but when it is very cold, it can be negative because after the setback there will be long heating cycles, causing the brine to get somewhat colder.
The most important thing is to optimize the heating system and heating curve for the house. Especially with thermostats, I can easily imagine that the heat pump or the flow rate is often “choked off.” Ideally—now is almost the optimal season (as soon as it gets a bit cooler)—adjust the heating curve to the house yourself, since this is a longer process. What was also important for me was setting a higher hysteresis so that the heat pump does not cycle too frequently.
If the heat pump’s capacity matches the house well, this is the most important factor; other settings are secondary (possibly lowering the domestic hot water temperature).
Otherwise, I would be interested in what “the first error in the system” was (or was that independent of the question)?
a setback in temperature is not recommended for a well-insulated house. Essentially, only your heat storage— the screed—cools down, and this then needs to be reheated. On normal nights, this usually does not make much difference, but when it is very cold, it can be negative because after the setback there will be long heating cycles, causing the brine to get somewhat colder.
The most important thing is to optimize the heating system and heating curve for the house. Especially with thermostats, I can easily imagine that the heat pump or the flow rate is often “choked off.” Ideally—now is almost the optimal season (as soon as it gets a bit cooler)—adjust the heating curve to the house yourself, since this is a longer process. What was also important for me was setting a higher hysteresis so that the heat pump does not cycle too frequently.
If the heat pump’s capacity matches the house well, this is the most important factor; other settings are secondary (possibly lowering the domestic hot water temperature).
Otherwise, I would be interested in what “the first error in the system” was (or was that independent of the question)?
There is also the opposite argument that the nighttime setback makes sense because otherwise the heat pump has to work against the low outdoor temperature at night. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle (a slight setback at night with the goal of maintaining the indoor temperature, not lowering it)?
Alex85 schrieb:
Night setback does make sense because otherwise the heat pump has to work against the low outdoor temperature at night. In my opinion, this argument has some logic but applies only to air-to-water heat pumps, or at most to ground collectors near the surface. The brine temperature in deep boreholes should not have a daily fluctuation, or am I missing something?
Alex85 schrieb:
There is also the opposite argument that the nighttime setback makes sense because otherwise the heat pump has to work against low outdoor temperatures at night.
Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between (a slight setback at night aiming to maintain indoor temperature rather than lowering it)? In addition to Kekse’s arguments, there is also the point that if you want to bridge the cold/dark winter nights, the heat pump would need to be turned off for quite a long time, which then requires very long continuous operating times. With an air-to-water heat pump, you have the risk of icing, and with a ground-source heat pump, the brine temperature drops slightly during long operating periods because the surroundings around the ground probe cool down. At least with my ground-source heat pump, I don’t have daily temperature swings, which is precisely the advantage—being largely independent of air or outdoor temperature. For me, the variation between the beginning and end of winter is less than half a degree.
Kekse schrieb:
The argument has, in my opinion, some logic, but it only applies to air-to-water heat pumps, or at most to ground loops with horizontal collectors. The brine temperature in deep boreholes shouldn’t have daily fluctuations, or am I missing something?A gas boiler doesn’t have them either, yet temperatures are still lowered because the heating demand of the residents decreases.
However, I’m not inclined to argue this point further, as it is not my own view. I recently read about this, and the idea is quite understandable. The question remains which method is truly more efficient—there are arguments for both.
Night setback is taken into account in the thermal insulation calculation and can improve the result, just came to my mind.
Alex85 schrieb:
A gas heating system doesn’t have it either, and yet people lower the temperature. This is because the heating demand of the occupants is lower. I would appreciate a factual argument. “People lower the temperature” is not an argument but an unsubstantiated statement without any meaningful content. By the way, I never lowered the temperature with my gas heating in my apartment before (and I compared the consumption with and without “lowering,” and there was no difference, considering the outside temperature).
Alex85 schrieb:
But I’m not interested in arguing this point further It would be nice if you started by providing an argument first!Setback heating is effective in older buildings that are very poorly insulated and do not have underfloor heating. Then, 2-3 degrees less inside results in energy savings through a smaller temperature difference and thus less heat loss to the outside. Reheating is less problematic because the goal is to raise the air temperature, not the screed (which is generally less comfortable – when the building itself is warm, one feels comfortable at a lower air temperature than in a cold building). Also, gas heating systems operate more efficiently once fully warmed up and can run longer cycles! You cannot simply apply this completely different concept to a modern, well-insulated building with different technology (or rather: you can, but it is incorrect).
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