Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
These are not confidential data, but merely comparison values. Sorry, but with this logic, you could claim anything without proof. You yourself asked for sources, but you fail to provide them here.
The 60 years I mentioned are not arbitrary, but calculated using assumed, realistic figures.
Similarly, you cannot reliably prove your 25 years, as you do not have a second, completely identical property next door.
Furthermore, the recent discussion concerned the high quoted costs for the drilling. Anyone can calculate this themselves using the data and assumed figures. I demonstrated this with two examples.
The 60 years I mentioned are not arbitrary, but calculated using assumed, realistic figures.
Similarly, you cannot reliably prove your 25 years, as you do not have a second, completely identical property next door.
Furthermore, the recent discussion concerned the high quoted costs for the drilling. Anyone can calculate this themselves using the data and assumed figures. I demonstrated this with two examples.
Your figures are even more generalized than mine, as I have my data and know how the air-to-water heat pump performs in the immediate area. You simply took some random numbers, which makes them not more realistic but rather less so. Therefore, your 60 years are even more uncertain than my 25, which of course only apply to me but are nowhere near as speculative as your numbers.
Otherwise, this back and forth does not add any value to the question. In detail, the profitability of the drilling cannot be answered in such a generalized way, as you are trying to do here. You would need information about the heating demand, the region/temperatures, and so on.
Otherwise, this back and forth does not add any value to the question. In detail, the profitability of the drilling cannot be answered in such a generalized way, as you are trying to do here. You would need information about the heating demand, the region/temperatures, and so on.
Less imagination than you might think. There is a valid energy saving regulation that sets certain parameters. For example, this allows a realistic estimate of the heating energy demand. It has nothing to do with made-up figures or concepts.
At your 25 years, you probably sourced your supply very cheaply. At least, as long as you use realistic figures for a presumed air-to-water heat pump.
And you say it yourself: you have YOUR numbers.
With the example calculations I provided, EVERYONE can at least roughly estimate what is worthwhile and what is not.
At your 25 years, you probably sourced your supply very cheaply. At least, as long as you use realistic figures for a presumed air-to-water heat pump.
And you say it yourself: you have YOUR numbers.
With the example calculations I provided, EVERYONE can at least roughly estimate what is worthwhile and what is not.
Joedreck schrieb:
With the example calculations I provided, anyone can at least roughly estimate what is worthwhile and what is not. Nonsense. You simply assume a fixed period of 60 years, regardless of the countless parameters that vary from one construction project to another. And these cannot be universally accurate, as they do not apply to my situation at all, for example.
There are also other reasons to choose a ground-source heat pump, such as the elimination of a potentially disturbing outdoor unit.
It is often reported that there are complaints about these units or that they can be a nuisance. This can also be taken into account.
(For example, the low-frequency noise from the air-to-water heat pump outdoor unit of my neighbor next door is disturbing to the neighbor across the street, as the air is blown directly in his direction. Fortunately, I don’t notice anything myself.)
Saruss schrieb:
Otherwise, there are additional reasons for a brine heat pump+ passive cooling
What is your calculated annual performance factor by now? How much did the development of your water source cost? Did you provide any own labor? It should be easy for you to share your specific figures here to make everything clear and understandable for everyone.
You ask about sources. I provide them, including the lower efficiency of about 20%. I present transparent calculations. You ask for your sources, which either fall under data protection or you are expected to look up yourself. That’s quite different from being factual.
You ask about sources. I provide them, including the lower efficiency of about 20%. I present transparent calculations. You ask for your sources, which either fall under data protection or you are expected to look up yourself. That’s quite different from being factual.
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