ᐅ House without a garage and basement? Converting the attic? Vent pipe?
Created on: 24 Jun 2015 19:59
G
Grym
We have been considering the following:
If we want to build without a basement and without a garage, preferably with just a carport, does it make sense – and what would the cost difference be – to convert the attic instead?
We plan to build a structure approximately 10.50 meters x 8.50 meters (34.4 ft x 27.9 ft) along the street. On top, a gable roof with a 45-degree pitch (alternatively: only 40 degrees), and the knee wall on the first floor should be about 1.40 meters (4.6 ft) high. At the highest point, the interior height would probably be around 2.80 meters (9.2 ft).
Instead of insulating the top floor ceiling, we would insulate the roof. For cost reasons, the top floor ceiling would remain a wooden beam construction (I assume?). The attic would be an unheated secondary space but equipped with at least one ventilation opening.
The staircase up to the attic should be reasonably comfortable. What is the cost of a standard residential staircase? We might simply extend the living area staircase to the attic if the additional cost is not too high.
In the medium term, we want a wood-and-metal design carport for two cars next to the house, with bike racks in the rear area (which in my opinion looks much better than a concrete and steel garage box). The bikes would be weather-protected but quickly accessible. Necessary garden tools will be stored in the utility room; unnecessary items, seasonal goods, heirlooms, etc., will go into the attic (within the thermal envelope and ventilated by a controlled residential ventilation system). Likewise, winter storage of the garden chairs would be in the attic; in summer, they will remain outside permanently.
It is also unclear whether and what kind of equipment could be located in the utility room (ground or air source heat pump, controlled residential ventilation system, hot water hygiene storage tank, etc.).
Another question is what the cost impact would be for this kind of attic conversion (planned from the start and carried out by the general contractor) compared to the standard option (insulating the top floor ceiling, insulated pull-down stairs to the unheated attic space).
If we want to build without a basement and without a garage, preferably with just a carport, does it make sense – and what would the cost difference be – to convert the attic instead?
We plan to build a structure approximately 10.50 meters x 8.50 meters (34.4 ft x 27.9 ft) along the street. On top, a gable roof with a 45-degree pitch (alternatively: only 40 degrees), and the knee wall on the first floor should be about 1.40 meters (4.6 ft) high. At the highest point, the interior height would probably be around 2.80 meters (9.2 ft).
Instead of insulating the top floor ceiling, we would insulate the roof. For cost reasons, the top floor ceiling would remain a wooden beam construction (I assume?). The attic would be an unheated secondary space but equipped with at least one ventilation opening.
The staircase up to the attic should be reasonably comfortable. What is the cost of a standard residential staircase? We might simply extend the living area staircase to the attic if the additional cost is not too high.
In the medium term, we want a wood-and-metal design carport for two cars next to the house, with bike racks in the rear area (which in my opinion looks much better than a concrete and steel garage box). The bikes would be weather-protected but quickly accessible. Necessary garden tools will be stored in the utility room; unnecessary items, seasonal goods, heirlooms, etc., will go into the attic (within the thermal envelope and ventilated by a controlled residential ventilation system). Likewise, winter storage of the garden chairs would be in the attic; in summer, they will remain outside permanently.
It is also unclear whether and what kind of equipment could be located in the utility room (ground or air source heat pump, controlled residential ventilation system, hot water hygiene storage tank, etc.).
Another question is what the cost impact would be for this kind of attic conversion (planned from the start and carried out by the general contractor) compared to the standard option (insulating the top floor ceiling, insulated pull-down stairs to the unheated attic space).
So...
The window layout is, of course, not yet finalized. The house will have two full stories, with a hip roof featuring a 25-degree pitch.
If the walk-in closet is removed, it would be possible to build a large wardrobe of about 3.xx meters (approximately 10 feet) there instead and make the smaller children's room somewhat larger. But despite the corner shape, I think 17 square meters (about 183 square feet) is still adequate.
There would be space between the bathroom and the children's room for a storage room, possibly with a washing machine and dryer. Would that be practical? Necessary? What size would be appropriate? The supply line to the utility room would definitely be short from there.
The window layout is, of course, not yet finalized. The house will have two full stories, with a hip roof featuring a 25-degree pitch.
If the walk-in closet is removed, it would be possible to build a large wardrobe of about 3.xx meters (approximately 10 feet) there instead and make the smaller children's room somewhat larger. But despite the corner shape, I think 17 square meters (about 183 square feet) is still adequate.
There would be space between the bathroom and the children's room for a storage room, possibly with a washing machine and dryer. Would that be practical? Necessary? What size would be appropriate? The supply line to the utility room would definitely be short from there.
N
nordanney17 Jul 2015 23:32With two such oversized children’s rooms, I would prefer to plan a kids’ bathroom. Access to the master bathroom only through the bedroom. So, redesign again.
... or just go to the architect and do it properly... (have you counted how many drafts this is from you so far?)
... or just go to the architect and do it properly... (have you counted how many drafts this is from you so far?)
Hmm... the kitchen keeps getting smaller, with unusual dimensions like 85 cm (33.5 inches) in the upper right corner. And then a breakfast bar only 40 cm (16 inches) deep? Where are the sink and cooktop? There’s hardly any countertop space left. Moving through the kitchen towards the terrace access is like running a slalom.
The bedroom on the upper floor has a wardrobe 53 cm (21 inches) deep, but the 80 cm (31.5 inches) passage to the bed won’t work in a room that’s 332 cm (130.7 inches) wide in its rough construction dimensions. A mattress that’s 200 cm (79 inches) long should be planned with at least 210 cm (83 inches) clearance.
And the wardrobe area with 113 cm (44.5 inches) depth... it might be better to remove that wall altogether. That just won’t work.
The staircase has a run length of approximately 370 cm (146 inches)... so the floor-to-floor height shouldn’t be too high. With a tread depth of about 26.75 cm (10.5 inches), you get a maximum of 14 steps.
The children’s room with the corner niche... such a recess is actually ideal for a recessed bed cover, but a standard 140 cm (55 inches) wide youth bed doesn’t really fit there properly.
The bedroom on the upper floor has a wardrobe 53 cm (21 inches) deep, but the 80 cm (31.5 inches) passage to the bed won’t work in a room that’s 332 cm (130.7 inches) wide in its rough construction dimensions. A mattress that’s 200 cm (79 inches) long should be planned with at least 210 cm (83 inches) clearance.
And the wardrobe area with 113 cm (44.5 inches) depth... it might be better to remove that wall altogether. That just won’t work.
The staircase has a run length of approximately 370 cm (146 inches)... so the floor-to-floor height shouldn’t be too high. With a tread depth of about 26.75 cm (10.5 inches), you get a maximum of 14 steps.
The children’s room with the corner niche... such a recess is actually ideal for a recessed bed cover, but a standard 140 cm (55 inches) wide youth bed doesn’t really fit there properly.
She says: I won’t clean three bathrooms. And I don’t see the point of having an extra bathroom. On the other hand, I find the children’s rooms appropriate as planned; I was more concerned that the smaller one might be too small. Of course, young children spend little time in their rooms, but over time, you need space next to the bed and various wardrobes for a truly large desk (besides written homework, a PC becomes essential in a child’s room at a certain age—so the desk should be at least 200cm (79 inches) to accommodate both, plus a reading lamp and some documents). Eventually, there will likely be a personal TV, a sofa, and space for hobbies (violin, punching bag, bookshelf, easel, etc.). My sister had something like a small round dining table in her room, where she could have coffee get-togethers with friends. That’s what kids want...
Oh, and my sister also had loads of plants. In a 25sqm (269 sq ft) children’s room, you can really make your own space. I had a bit more room and wouldn’t say it was wasted. I could invite dozens of friends, not just one or two at a time. What hardly ever happened was that I stood outside a locked bathroom. And in those rare cases, there was the guest toilet for urgent needs.
Therefore: The children’s rooms are definitely not too large; we’re actually worried they might be too small for children aged 11 or 12 and older, but I think 17 and 19 sqm (183 and 204 sq ft) are still fine. We do not want a third bathroom. The rooms are planned exactly where they should be, meaning the office/gym area remains on the ground floor. Upstairs there will be two children’s rooms, one bedroom, one bathroom, and nothing else. The bedroom should be as big as necessary, the bathroom not too small, and the remaining space fairly divided between the two children’s rooms. Optionally, as mentioned, there is the question of a storage room or a combined storage/laundry room.
Oh, and my sister also had loads of plants. In a 25sqm (269 sq ft) children’s room, you can really make your own space. I had a bit more room and wouldn’t say it was wasted. I could invite dozens of friends, not just one or two at a time. What hardly ever happened was that I stood outside a locked bathroom. And in those rare cases, there was the guest toilet for urgent needs.
Therefore: The children’s rooms are definitely not too large; we’re actually worried they might be too small for children aged 11 or 12 and older, but I think 17 and 19 sqm (183 and 204 sq ft) are still fine. We do not want a third bathroom. The rooms are planned exactly where they should be, meaning the office/gym area remains on the ground floor. Upstairs there will be two children’s rooms, one bedroom, one bathroom, and nothing else. The bedroom should be as big as necessary, the bathroom not too small, and the remaining space fairly divided between the two children’s rooms. Optionally, as mentioned, there is the question of a storage room or a combined storage/laundry room.
kbt09 schrieb:
Hmm .. the kitchen keeps getting smaller, strange measurements of 85cm (33.5 inches) in the upper right kitchen corner. The kitchen should be as large as necessary and as small as possible. As I said, it’s meant to be a functional space for food preparation, not a living area. The 85cm (33.5 inches) comes from the strictly required 320cm (126 inches) for the dining area. I haven’t fully decided yet what should go there, but I noticed that side-by-side refrigerators are about 89–91cm (35–36 inches) wide. So we will probably adjust that space to roughly that size plus 5–10cm (2–4 inches) clearance and place the fridge there. And most likely just an open passage instead of a door, since the living room is open to the hallway anyway, so no need to add one there.
By the way, the table is shown as an example in case guests come over. Of course, we won’t keep eight chairs there permanently.
And then a breakfast bar only 40 cm deep? That’s the standard depth in my software. You could definitely go deeper if you want. The exact kitchen planning will be done by the kitchen designer anyway.
Where are the sink and cooktop? Hardly any countertop space left. The main countertop is the breakfast bar. Don’t ask me why, but my wife sees the key feature of the bar as a place where you can sit and work, for example, peel and prepare salad. I hardly think any of us will ever sit there just to have coffee. It’s more of a visual room divider gimmick as well as workspace. The bar stool will of course be moved to the other side as needed.
As I said, the exact kitchen layout is not finalized yet, but a U-shape of 320x180cm (126x71 inches) without the refrigerator and without windows in that area should offer quite a bit of workspace.
The path from the kitchen to the terrace entrance is like a slalom. That’s not really a problem, but as mentioned, the table is shown for large family gatherings. Usually, there will be just about four chairs, and when friends come over, we always sit on the sofa (we already have a similarly sized sofa as shown, unfortunately oriented the opposite way).
Bedroom upstairs … 53 cm deep closet, but 80 cm clearance to the bed won’t work in a room with a rough frame width of 332 cm (131 inches). A bed with a 200 cm (79 inch) mattress should be planned with at least 210 cm (83 inches) length. Okay, we’ll add another 16–18cm (6–7 inches) for that.
And the closet area with 113 cm (44 inches) depth … better remove the wall then. That won’t fit. I will check that. Yes, probably.
The stairs have a run length of about 370 cm (146 inches) … the floor height shouldn’t be too high then. With a tread depth of about 26.75 cm (10.5 inches), that means a maximum of 14 steps. I read online that a tread depth of 23 cm (9 inches) is acceptable, 26 cm (10 inches) is good, and what I chose was 26 cm (10 inches) with the number of steps suggested by the staircase manufacturer’s website. The stairs also have room for extension at the top and bottom and will definitely be designed for comfort. So the length might be 380, 390 cm (150, 153 inches), etc. Final details will be planned by the general contractor.
The children's room with the corner … such a niche is actually perfect for a recessed bed, but a typical 140 cm (55 inch) youth bed really doesn’t fit there. A desk could also go there, facing the window and outside. The window only needs to be opened maybe once a year for cleaning. We will install some kind of ventilation, whether central or decentralized, so I want at least one openable window per room, but that’s all that’s necessary. Otherwise, it might become a hobby area, like an easel or reading nook with a view of the garden, or a chair and violin, or whatever hobby develops…
Here are the new drawings with the changes...
The bed is just an example now. It could also be a desk facing the garden (the window would then be fixed, but there is at least one other window). Or, depending on the hobby, a reading nook, a seating area with a violin, a punching bag, an easel, and so on...
The bed is just an example now. It could also be a desk facing the garden (the window would then be fixed, but there is at least one other window). Or, depending on the hobby, a reading nook, a seating area with a violin, a punching bag, an easel, and so on...
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