Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
Hello,
I’m joining this topic since it also relates to "experiences." We are currently preparing to build our single-family home. Right now, we are particularly concerned about the heating system, especially the question of “heat pump – yes or no.”
I need your help. We have received several quotes, all based on a KFW55 standard and a gas condensing boiler. There is also the usual solar thermal system and a controlled residential ventilation system.
As an option, we were also offered a ground-source heat pump. No matter how I calculate, the additional investment doesn’t pay off even after 15 years. I wonder what I am doing wrong or missing.
About the numbers:
The additional costs after BAFA subsidy and “gas connection savings” are approximately €11,000 to €14,500 (depending on the provider). I roughly estimated 16,000 kWh for heating and domestic hot water (((160 m² (1720 square feet) * 50 W/m² (4.6 W/sqft)) + 500 W) / 1000 * 1900 h). Sorry, I know this is a very rough estimate.
Only with an average electricity price over 15 years of about 9.5 cents/kWh (which would mean around a 13% annual increase) do the costs over 15 years become roughly equal. However, I assumed no electricity price increases over those 15 years, which seems rather unrealistic. The costs for chimney sweeping and maintenance are considered, as well as the fixed charges for gas supply and the secondary meter fee.
Am I overlooking something in my calculation, or is it really this hard to make it financially viable? Thank you very much.
Best regards
I’m joining this topic since it also relates to "experiences." We are currently preparing to build our single-family home. Right now, we are particularly concerned about the heating system, especially the question of “heat pump – yes or no.”
I need your help. We have received several quotes, all based on a KFW55 standard and a gas condensing boiler. There is also the usual solar thermal system and a controlled residential ventilation system.
As an option, we were also offered a ground-source heat pump. No matter how I calculate, the additional investment doesn’t pay off even after 15 years. I wonder what I am doing wrong or missing.
About the numbers:
The additional costs after BAFA subsidy and “gas connection savings” are approximately €11,000 to €14,500 (depending on the provider). I roughly estimated 16,000 kWh for heating and domestic hot water (((160 m² (1720 square feet) * 50 W/m² (4.6 W/sqft)) + 500 W) / 1000 * 1900 h). Sorry, I know this is a very rough estimate.
Only with an average electricity price over 15 years of about 9.5 cents/kWh (which would mean around a 13% annual increase) do the costs over 15 years become roughly equal. However, I assumed no electricity price increases over those 15 years, which seems rather unrealistic. The costs for chimney sweeping and maintenance are considered, as well as the fixed charges for gas supply and the secondary meter fee.
Am I overlooking something in my calculation, or is it really this hard to make it financially viable? Thank you very much.
Best regards
taxpayer schrieb:
Hello,
I’m joining this topic since it relates to experiences. We are also currently preparing to build our single-family house. Right now, we are struggling with the heating system choice, especially the question "heat pump – yes or no."
I need your help. We have received several offers, all based on KFW55 standards, with a gas condensing boiler. This includes the usual solar thermal system and a controlled mechanical ventilation system.
As an option, we also requested a ground-source heat pump quote. No matter how I calculate, the additional investment doesn’t pay off even after 15 years. I wonder what I’m missing... what am I overlooking?
About the numbers:
The additional costs after BAFA subsidy and "gas connection savings" are around €11,000 to €14,500 (depending on the provider). I roughly estimated an energy demand of 16,000 kWh for heating and hot water (((160 m² (1722 ft²) * 50 W/m² (4.6 W/ft²)) + 500 W) / 1000 * 1900 h). Sorry, I know this is very approximate.
Only with an average electricity price over 15 years of 9.5 cents/kWh (which would mean an annual increase of about 13%) do the costs balance out over 15 years. I assumed no price increases for electricity over 15 years, which is rather unrealistic. The costs for chimney inspection and maintenance are included, as well as the base gas fees and additional meter fees.
Am I missing something in my calculation, or is it really so difficult for the heat pump to be cost-effective? Many thanks.
Best regardsI don’t see any calculation details; how can one give feedback or hints? From mobile
Hi!
We are still in the process of selecting a cost-effective and reliable ground source heat pump. I have two questions on this topic. The first is a quick question to clarify my understanding... (1) What exactly is the purpose of a buffer tank? What are the advantages and disadvantages (if any)? So far, I haven’t noticed buffer tanks being mentioned with air-to-water heat pumps, but the term comes up quite often in relation to ground source heat pumps.
(2) Does anyone know the company "Brötje"? They appear to be from northern Germany, and we expect to receive a good offer next week for a unit from Brötje.
Best regards and thanks for the help.
Gatho
We are still in the process of selecting a cost-effective and reliable ground source heat pump. I have two questions on this topic. The first is a quick question to clarify my understanding... (1) What exactly is the purpose of a buffer tank? What are the advantages and disadvantages (if any)? So far, I haven’t noticed buffer tanks being mentioned with air-to-water heat pumps, but the term comes up quite often in relation to ground source heat pumps.
(2) Does anyone know the company "Brötje"? They appear to be from northern Germany, and we expect to receive a good offer next week for a unit from Brötje.
Best regards and thanks for the help.
Gatho
With the correct design, you should only use one domestic hot water storage tank and not a buffer tank for heating, even with a ground source heat pump (this works very well for me). Physically, it is like this: the screed in the house has such a large thermal mass that a few hundred liters of buffer water are insignificant in comparison.
from on the go
from on the go
S
Sebastian7931 Aug 2016 22:13So, finally it can be done, although there is still some tinkering with the heating system...
August
3 people, 240 m² (2,583 sq ft) living space, Kfw70 energy saving standard 2014, Vaillant Flexotherm 87/4, 140 m (460 ft) drilling depth, circulation pipe (activated occasionally), ventilation system
Heating: 0 kW
Hot water: 66.79 kW
Household electricity: 335.21 kW
Water consumption: 9 m³ (9,550 liters)
August
3 people, 240 m² (2,583 sq ft) living space, Kfw70 energy saving standard 2014, Vaillant Flexotherm 87/4, 140 m (460 ft) drilling depth, circulation pipe (activated occasionally), ventilation system
Heating: 0 kW
Hot water: 66.79 kW
Household electricity: 335.21 kW
Water consumption: 9 m³ (9,550 liters)
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