C
ChrisFromSwiss30 Apr 2015 23:09Dear IKEA fans – I/we urgently need your valued advice, tips, and suggestions regarding our planned IKEA kitchen.
This is my first post here, and whether I will truly become an IKEA fan remains to be seen – but this is a fantastic forum, many thanks for the contributions so far! They have already helped us make some important decisions (one of which was/ is to choose an IKEA kitchen ).
We (that is, my wife and I) live in Switzerland and are currently working on the detailed planning of a medium-sized (or rather small) kitchen. Unfortunately, we keep going back and forth in our evaluation (and upcoming purchase) of the components.
In particular, there are hardly any useful experiences or reliable test results online about some of the electrical appliances (apparently because these are new models from IKEA). It is even harder for us to make a decision because the IKEA electrical appliances cost almost twice as much here in Switzerland (the refrigerator even more than double)! Sometimes I wonder whether it would make more sense to buy so-called “brand-name” appliances instead of IKEA devices… since the price differences to Germany (or the EU) are not that big and there might be more experience available with those appliances… But that is another topic.
Okay, IKEA apparently also uses so-called brand appliances, BUT we have had VERY bad experiences with, for example, Electrolux. Most appliances from this manufacturer (like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, washing machines) have already been disposed of and replaced by other brand appliances. The remaining ones (stove, cooktop, refrigerator) are ALL more or less (partly) defective and only function with significant limitations (but can still be used). However, this is not an acceptable situation. We have little to no experience with Whirlpool appliances.
The partly defective Electrolux appliances have not yet been replaced (or we have not been able to) because they comply with the so-called Swiss standard, which we are fed up with and no longer want in our home. However, compromises have to be made here, as some “parts” simply no longer fit. For this reason, we are now “forced” to take, for example, a 45cm (18 inches) dishwasher because with the 113cm (44½ inches) available width, it is either a 60 cm (24 inches) dishwasher and a 50 cm (20 inches) base cabinet for the sink (current situation) or a 60 cm (24 inches) IKEA base cabinet and an IKEA “medelstor” dishwasher that fits.
Now I would like to summarize what we have planned so far. But first, I will try to describe the existing kitchen or rather the kitchen space (and I hope this works out somewhat).
It is an open-plan kitchen in the shape of an “I” and “C.” The “C” shape is not curved and is “turned upside down,” meaning the opening of the “C” does not face to the right but towards the “I.” The “I” represents a central island (dimensions: L 2.5 m (8 feet 2 inches), W 62 cm (24½ inches), and H 2.12 m (6 feet 11½ inches)) and the (rotated) “C” represents the typical kitchen setup, i.e., wet area, cooking zone, and base cabinets with a 1.8 m x 40 cm (5 feet 11 inches x 16 inches) bar top above. There is about 1 m (3 feet 3 inches) of space between the “I” and the (rotated) “C” (a garden door above and a passage below).
Phew, this is not easy to explain! However, I hope I have managed to describe how the kitchen looks now.
We have very little or almost no flexibility for “major” changes to the existing design. Only the central island – we call it the island because it stands between the entrance and garden doors – can be extended from 2.5 to max. 3 m (8 feet 2 inches to 9 feet 10 inches) (using either five 60 cm (24 inches) wide or one 40 cm (16 inches) and four 60 cm (24 inches) tall cabinets) and can be increased in height from 2.12 m to 2.28 m (6 feet 11½ inches to 7 feet 6 inches). The 45, 50, or 55 cm (18, 20, or 22 inches) cabinets in the “C” letter will disappear permanently. The existing 60 cm (24 inches) ceramic cooktop will be replaced with an 80 cm (31½ inches) induction cooktop. Furthermore, the central column will be fitted with a larger refrigerator (without freezer) and newly equipped with an oven and a microwave oven.
Okay, last Friday, we spent almost 12 hours (!) at IKEA and came up with a new kitchen composed of the following components and appliances:
Furniture:
- We chose METOD with white gloss fronts and Lansa handles (the gloss white brings a certain elegance) and a solid wood countertop (oak? beech? brings warmth, or maybe granite??)
- HÄLLVIKEN built-in sink, single bowl, black quartz composite – possibly less sensitive than stainless steel
Electrical appliances:
- Högvärdig induction cooktop, bridge function, black
- Underverk stainless steel built-in hood (also 80 cm (31½ inches))
- Kulinarisk oven, stainless steel
- GENAST microwave with convection
- MEDELSTOR integrated dishwasher
- FROSTIG built-in refrigerator, 319 liters (11.3 cubic feet), A energy rating
As mentioned before, unfortunately we have hardly found any useful information online about the electrical appliances, except for:
- Frostig refrigerator – a French YouTube review showing quite a high noise level (instead of the declared 34 dB). This video has made us very uncertain!
- Medelstor dishwasher – no quality reviews, but several people are trying to sell these dishwashers used (they are rather new models, so what could that mean: bad purchase??? dissatisfaction??)
- Högvärdig induction cooktop – no useful information or user experiences found
- Underverk hood – same, no information found
I would really appreciate any hints, tips, links but especially warnings or “do not recommend” experiences regarding our plan. Everything that helps us move forward with this matter (or even discourages certain ideas) is very important to us. We are not young anymore but both still working full-time, and we have little energy (often health is also an issue) to deal with potential complaints, repairs, and replacements. We no longer trust so-called brand-name appliances either, as what was valid a few years ago unfortunately no longer applies. Here I am specifically referring to the so-called “Chinese products” (representing cheap production). Sadly, these have become almost ubiquitous and the blame usually lies not with the poor “Chinese” but with those commissioning them (i.e., managers) who are more interested in lining their own pockets than delivering consistent quality… but that is yet another topic and probably won’t help us much here.
Thank you very much in advance for EVERYTHING that helps us move forward (and/or holds us back ) – and warm greetings from Switzerland
Chris
This is my first post here, and whether I will truly become an IKEA fan remains to be seen – but this is a fantastic forum, many thanks for the contributions so far! They have already helped us make some important decisions (one of which was/ is to choose an IKEA kitchen ).
We (that is, my wife and I) live in Switzerland and are currently working on the detailed planning of a medium-sized (or rather small) kitchen. Unfortunately, we keep going back and forth in our evaluation (and upcoming purchase) of the components.
In particular, there are hardly any useful experiences or reliable test results online about some of the electrical appliances (apparently because these are new models from IKEA). It is even harder for us to make a decision because the IKEA electrical appliances cost almost twice as much here in Switzerland (the refrigerator even more than double)! Sometimes I wonder whether it would make more sense to buy so-called “brand-name” appliances instead of IKEA devices… since the price differences to Germany (or the EU) are not that big and there might be more experience available with those appliances… But that is another topic.
Okay, IKEA apparently also uses so-called brand appliances, BUT we have had VERY bad experiences with, for example, Electrolux. Most appliances from this manufacturer (like vacuum cleaners, dishwashers, washing machines) have already been disposed of and replaced by other brand appliances. The remaining ones (stove, cooktop, refrigerator) are ALL more or less (partly) defective and only function with significant limitations (but can still be used). However, this is not an acceptable situation. We have little to no experience with Whirlpool appliances.
The partly defective Electrolux appliances have not yet been replaced (or we have not been able to) because they comply with the so-called Swiss standard, which we are fed up with and no longer want in our home. However, compromises have to be made here, as some “parts” simply no longer fit. For this reason, we are now “forced” to take, for example, a 45cm (18 inches) dishwasher because with the 113cm (44½ inches) available width, it is either a 60 cm (24 inches) dishwasher and a 50 cm (20 inches) base cabinet for the sink (current situation) or a 60 cm (24 inches) IKEA base cabinet and an IKEA “medelstor” dishwasher that fits.
Now I would like to summarize what we have planned so far. But first, I will try to describe the existing kitchen or rather the kitchen space (and I hope this works out somewhat).
It is an open-plan kitchen in the shape of an “I” and “C.” The “C” shape is not curved and is “turned upside down,” meaning the opening of the “C” does not face to the right but towards the “I.” The “I” represents a central island (dimensions: L 2.5 m (8 feet 2 inches), W 62 cm (24½ inches), and H 2.12 m (6 feet 11½ inches)) and the (rotated) “C” represents the typical kitchen setup, i.e., wet area, cooking zone, and base cabinets with a 1.8 m x 40 cm (5 feet 11 inches x 16 inches) bar top above. There is about 1 m (3 feet 3 inches) of space between the “I” and the (rotated) “C” (a garden door above and a passage below).
Phew, this is not easy to explain! However, I hope I have managed to describe how the kitchen looks now.
We have very little or almost no flexibility for “major” changes to the existing design. Only the central island – we call it the island because it stands between the entrance and garden doors – can be extended from 2.5 to max. 3 m (8 feet 2 inches to 9 feet 10 inches) (using either five 60 cm (24 inches) wide or one 40 cm (16 inches) and four 60 cm (24 inches) tall cabinets) and can be increased in height from 2.12 m to 2.28 m (6 feet 11½ inches to 7 feet 6 inches). The 45, 50, or 55 cm (18, 20, or 22 inches) cabinets in the “C” letter will disappear permanently. The existing 60 cm (24 inches) ceramic cooktop will be replaced with an 80 cm (31½ inches) induction cooktop. Furthermore, the central column will be fitted with a larger refrigerator (without freezer) and newly equipped with an oven and a microwave oven.
Okay, last Friday, we spent almost 12 hours (!) at IKEA and came up with a new kitchen composed of the following components and appliances:
Furniture:
- We chose METOD with white gloss fronts and Lansa handles (the gloss white brings a certain elegance) and a solid wood countertop (oak? beech? brings warmth, or maybe granite??)
- HÄLLVIKEN built-in sink, single bowl, black quartz composite – possibly less sensitive than stainless steel
Electrical appliances:
- Högvärdig induction cooktop, bridge function, black
- Underverk stainless steel built-in hood (also 80 cm (31½ inches))
- Kulinarisk oven, stainless steel
- GENAST microwave with convection
- MEDELSTOR integrated dishwasher
- FROSTIG built-in refrigerator, 319 liters (11.3 cubic feet), A energy rating
As mentioned before, unfortunately we have hardly found any useful information online about the electrical appliances, except for:
- Frostig refrigerator – a French YouTube review showing quite a high noise level (instead of the declared 34 dB). This video has made us very uncertain!
- Medelstor dishwasher – no quality reviews, but several people are trying to sell these dishwashers used (they are rather new models, so what could that mean: bad purchase??? dissatisfaction??)
- Högvärdig induction cooktop – no useful information or user experiences found
- Underverk hood – same, no information found
I would really appreciate any hints, tips, links but especially warnings or “do not recommend” experiences regarding our plan. Everything that helps us move forward with this matter (or even discourages certain ideas) is very important to us. We are not young anymore but both still working full-time, and we have little energy (often health is also an issue) to deal with potential complaints, repairs, and replacements. We no longer trust so-called brand-name appliances either, as what was valid a few years ago unfortunately no longer applies. Here I am specifically referring to the so-called “Chinese products” (representing cheap production). Sadly, these have become almost ubiquitous and the blame usually lies not with the poor “Chinese” but with those commissioning them (i.e., managers) who are more interested in lining their own pockets than delivering consistent quality… but that is yet another topic and probably won’t help us much here.
Thank you very much in advance for EVERYTHING that helps us move forward (and/or holds us back ) – and warm greetings from Switzerland
Chris
I
IKEA-Experte1 May 2015 10:02Hello Chris, the best approach is to first design a kitchen according to your preferences using the 3D kitchen planner and then post the link to your design here. This way, it’s easier to provide suggestions based on your layout.
If I had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers.
There are only a few issues. Built-in slimline range hoods are rarely available in 80 cm (31.5 inches) width. Berbel offers something in this size; the quality is very good, but the price is quite high. In this case, I might consider going for the under-cabinet hood instead.
If you have read around this forum, you have probably also noticed that only XXL dishwashers with a variable hinge (Vario hinge) from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit smoothly. Miele models also work but are more expensive. However, there are no XXL dishwashers in 45 cm (17.7 inches) width. Your options are: 1) choose the medium-size model, 2) ask IKEA immediately if any BEHJÄJPLIG models are still in stock and buy right away, or 3) raise the base cabinet to at least 9 cm (3.5 inches) and install the dishwasher front with about 8 cm (3 inches) overhang.
If I had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers.
There are only a few issues. Built-in slimline range hoods are rarely available in 80 cm (31.5 inches) width. Berbel offers something in this size; the quality is very good, but the price is quite high. In this case, I might consider going for the under-cabinet hood instead.
If you have read around this forum, you have probably also noticed that only XXL dishwashers with a variable hinge (Vario hinge) from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit smoothly. Miele models also work but are more expensive. However, there are no XXL dishwashers in 45 cm (17.7 inches) width. Your options are: 1) choose the medium-size model, 2) ask IKEA immediately if any BEHJÄJPLIG models are still in stock and buy right away, or 3) raise the base cabinet to at least 9 cm (3.5 inches) and install the dishwasher front with about 8 cm (3 inches) overhang.
C
ChrisFromSwiss2 May 2015 15:35Hello IKEA expert
Thank you very much for your quick reply!
No hard feelings, but I won’t dare to create a complete kitchen design with the 3D kitchen planner anymore. My free time is simply too precious for that. *** please, please keep reading *** IKEA is somewhat cheaper than other kitchen furniture suppliers, but still not so cheap that I want to sacrifice my already limited sleep hours to participate in the evaluation, design, planning, and assembly. But above all, please (!) keep reading and don’t misunderstand me. I absolutely have no desire (or nerves) left to spend hours entering all sorts of objects and their values—cabinets, fronts, appliances—and then watch the whole thing suddenly freeze, crash (or whatever), and become completely unusable (I even experienced the “boot helps” situation).
This 3D nightmare is 100% not related to my infrastructure but to the quality of the 3D kitchen planner itself! This software is, simply put, extremely poor, and I am not an IKEA beta tester. It might have to do with some “Switzerland location” extensions since people in Germany seem satisfied with it and/or with various obstacles I also tried to enter in the planner for this room: a drainpipe in the corner, a drainpipe under the ceiling, or a huge cable duct on the wall behind the island, etc., etc.—all previously hidden because the existing kitchen is a custom-made unit….
Long story short – I did create the current design with the 3D kitchen planner, but after multiple failed attempts to create a full layout (in one 3D-KP file), I gave up!
I simply divided the (complete) kitchen into three separate “kitchens” in the 3D planner (island, base cabinets, and wall cabinets) and ruthlessly left out any doors, windows, obstacles, cable ducts, as well as room dimensions (meaning the actual room and kitchen layout). So these plans would hardly inspire your imagination, might not help at all, or could even be counterproductive.
For me, right now, only the “start to finish” dimensions matter—when I put together a “block” made up of several cabinets. I have both the architectural plans of the house and the existing kitchen created with professional software, and (as mentioned) not much will change in this design (or can change).
>>>
If I had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers.
<<<
Well, basically I would too, but our situation is a bit different here! First—at least from what I understand—the appliances I listed are “IKEA appliances” developed in cooperation with Electrolux and/or Whirlpool. Second, when I buy these appliances, I get a 5-year warranty from IKEA, which I believe Electrolux or Whirlpool do not offer, and this also somewhat changes the legal situation.
>>>
If you have read some posts here in the forum, then probably also that only XXL dishwashers with variable hinges from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit smoothly. Miele also works but is more expensive. However, there are no XXL models in 45 cm width.
<<<
No, I haven’t read that yet (or didn’t pay attention), as the idea of the narrow dishwasher in favor of a wider sink base cabinet only came up recently. What I did not understand from your explanation are the connections in the quoted passage:
>>>
The options left are 1) take the MEDELSTOR, 2) immediately ask IKEA whether any BEHJÄJPLIG is still in stock somewhere and buy it right away, 3) raise the plinth at least 9 cm (3.5 inches) and mount the dishwasher front with approx. 8 cm (3 inches) overhang.
<<<
Regarding 1: That’s clear and already planned since MEDELSTOR is the only narrow dishwasher (at least on IKEA’s website) that you can buy at IKEA.
Regarding 2 and 3: Why, for what reason??? Is MEDELSTOR not a current METOD standard dishwasher (even if narrow) that would “seamlessly” fit into a standard METOD kitchen? Also, the MEDELSTOR dishwasher is the only (narrow) one selectable in the 3D kitchen planner, and there is nothing about BEHJÄJPLIG, plinth, or front overhang mounting… Is this another 3D planner “nonsense”?
What are the experiences with this dishwasher (and other listed appliances)?
Thanks again for your quick response (I unfortunately can’t reply as fast as you do).
Best regards,
Chris
Thank you very much for your quick reply!
No hard feelings, but I won’t dare to create a complete kitchen design with the 3D kitchen planner anymore. My free time is simply too precious for that. *** please, please keep reading *** IKEA is somewhat cheaper than other kitchen furniture suppliers, but still not so cheap that I want to sacrifice my already limited sleep hours to participate in the evaluation, design, planning, and assembly. But above all, please (!) keep reading and don’t misunderstand me. I absolutely have no desire (or nerves) left to spend hours entering all sorts of objects and their values—cabinets, fronts, appliances—and then watch the whole thing suddenly freeze, crash (or whatever), and become completely unusable (I even experienced the “boot helps” situation).
This 3D nightmare is 100% not related to my infrastructure but to the quality of the 3D kitchen planner itself! This software is, simply put, extremely poor, and I am not an IKEA beta tester. It might have to do with some “Switzerland location” extensions since people in Germany seem satisfied with it and/or with various obstacles I also tried to enter in the planner for this room: a drainpipe in the corner, a drainpipe under the ceiling, or a huge cable duct on the wall behind the island, etc., etc.—all previously hidden because the existing kitchen is a custom-made unit….
Long story short – I did create the current design with the 3D kitchen planner, but after multiple failed attempts to create a full layout (in one 3D-KP file), I gave up!
I simply divided the (complete) kitchen into three separate “kitchens” in the 3D planner (island, base cabinets, and wall cabinets) and ruthlessly left out any doors, windows, obstacles, cable ducts, as well as room dimensions (meaning the actual room and kitchen layout). So these plans would hardly inspire your imagination, might not help at all, or could even be counterproductive.
For me, right now, only the “start to finish” dimensions matter—when I put together a “block” made up of several cabinets. I have both the architectural plans of the house and the existing kitchen created with professional software, and (as mentioned) not much will change in this design (or can change).
>>>
If I had such bad experiences with Electrolux, I would buy appliances from other manufacturers.
<<<
Well, basically I would too, but our situation is a bit different here! First—at least from what I understand—the appliances I listed are “IKEA appliances” developed in cooperation with Electrolux and/or Whirlpool. Second, when I buy these appliances, I get a 5-year warranty from IKEA, which I believe Electrolux or Whirlpool do not offer, and this also somewhat changes the legal situation.
>>>
If you have read some posts here in the forum, then probably also that only XXL dishwashers with variable hinges from Bosch/Siemens/Neff fit smoothly. Miele also works but is more expensive. However, there are no XXL models in 45 cm width.
<<<
No, I haven’t read that yet (or didn’t pay attention), as the idea of the narrow dishwasher in favor of a wider sink base cabinet only came up recently. What I did not understand from your explanation are the connections in the quoted passage:
>>>
The options left are 1) take the MEDELSTOR, 2) immediately ask IKEA whether any BEHJÄJPLIG is still in stock somewhere and buy it right away, 3) raise the plinth at least 9 cm (3.5 inches) and mount the dishwasher front with approx. 8 cm (3 inches) overhang.
<<<
Regarding 1: That’s clear and already planned since MEDELSTOR is the only narrow dishwasher (at least on IKEA’s website) that you can buy at IKEA.
Regarding 2 and 3: Why, for what reason??? Is MEDELSTOR not a current METOD standard dishwasher (even if narrow) that would “seamlessly” fit into a standard METOD kitchen? Also, the MEDELSTOR dishwasher is the only (narrow) one selectable in the 3D kitchen planner, and there is nothing about BEHJÄJPLIG, plinth, or front overhang mounting… Is this another 3D planner “nonsense”?
What are the experiences with this dishwasher (and other listed appliances)?
Thanks again for your quick response (I unfortunately can’t reply as fast as you do).
Best regards,
Chris
C
ChrisFromSwiss2 May 2015 15:36A quick additional note: I will have little (or possibly no) internet access for the entire coming week, so I won’t be able to respond to any of your possible replies and comments immediately (at the earliest, in one week). So please don’t be upset right away.
Thank you in advance for your understanding.
Best regards, ChrisFromSwiss
Thank you in advance for your understanding.
Best regards, ChrisFromSwiss
I
IKEA-Experte2 May 2015 16:02Hello Chris,
I can understand that the 3D planner is quite frustrating for you. So far, I’ve hardly been able to use it because it’s only recently become available with Chrome on Linux. A hand-drawn and scanned floor plan with marked connections, window heights, etc. would already be helpful.
Is it a rental apartment or your own house? For a house, it might be worthwhile to have the water connections moved to a different location. That doesn’t have to be very expensive.
As far as I know, IKEA is responsible for the design of the electrical appliances, while Electrolux and Whirlpool handle the technical side.
Points 2 and 3 about the dishwasher refer to cases where appliances from other manufacturers are used. It’s also worth mentioning that someone wrote in another thread that assistance (Behjälplig) might be available again soon.
The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. At least, the appliances from Siemens should be compared.
I can understand that the 3D planner is quite frustrating for you. So far, I’ve hardly been able to use it because it’s only recently become available with Chrome on Linux. A hand-drawn and scanned floor plan with marked connections, window heights, etc. would already be helpful.
Is it a rental apartment or your own house? For a house, it might be worthwhile to have the water connections moved to a different location. That doesn’t have to be very expensive.
As far as I know, IKEA is responsible for the design of the electrical appliances, while Electrolux and Whirlpool handle the technical side.
Points 2 and 3 about the dishwasher refer to cases where appliances from other manufacturers are used. It’s also worth mentioning that someone wrote in another thread that assistance (Behjälplig) might be available again soon.
The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. At least, the appliances from Siemens should be compared.
C
ChrisFromSwiss2 May 2015 18:07Hello IKEA expert
Thank you for the prompt reply!
>>>
For a house, it might be worth having the water connections moved to a different location. This doesn't have to be very expensive.
<<<
Yes, it is a house, and no, the layout of the appliances (i.e., where they will be placed) has been decided after quite a lot of back and forth, and I don’t want to change that anymore. Also, dear IKEA expert,,,,, apparently you don’t know much about the costs of certain services here in Switzerland (I didn’t mean that negatively of course).
>>>
Points 2 and 3 regarding the dishwasher refer to using appliances from other manufacturers.
<<<
Okay, understood – I took your points 2 and 3 as a continuation of point 1…
<<<
BEHJÄLPLIG should soon be available again
>>>
Here in Switzerland, BEHJÄLPLIG (as far as I have seen) is readily available, so it could either be leftover stock or already a new supply…
>>>
The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. You should at least compare it with Siemens appliances.
<<<
Why Siemens??? I already shared a brief opinion about so-called "brand-name appliances" in my first thread. Our current Siemens dishwasher is actually the direct successor of the disposed Electrolux machine. Back then I bought one of the most expensive models… What did I get from that??? Brittle (and broken off) plastic parts inside and rather difficult-to-source spare parts that are “almost unaffordable”! Of course, nothing broke during the warranty period, but shortly afterward… Siemens used to be one of my favorite companies (alongside Bosch) – definitely not anymore. I also disposed of a Bosch vacuum cleaner (which was a test winner, by the way) within the warranty period because it broke down, and I had bought it in Germany (it wasn’t available here somehow and I wanted something good). The whole claiming process was a) too annoying and b) way too complicated for me… and one more thing: you obviously can no longer repair these devices without expensive special tools…
Okay IKEA expert, I’m no longer 20, and I definitely no longer trust big corporations! So now, anything that works reasonably well and comes with a LONG WARRANTY is fine by me, because if a manufacturer offers a 5-year warranty, that must mean something, right? (we will probably only find out in a few years). Whether it ultimately comes from Electrolux or not is absolutely irrelevant to me, as long as I buy it as an IKEA product and have reasonable security for the next 5 years…
Okay, as I already mentioned separately, I am now taking a forced break from kitchen evaluation and have to focus on some other matters.
Greetings from Switzerland
Chris
Thank you for the prompt reply!
>>>
For a house, it might be worth having the water connections moved to a different location. This doesn't have to be very expensive.
<<<
Yes, it is a house, and no, the layout of the appliances (i.e., where they will be placed) has been decided after quite a lot of back and forth, and I don’t want to change that anymore. Also, dear IKEA expert,,,,, apparently you don’t know much about the costs of certain services here in Switzerland (I didn’t mean that negatively of course).
>>>
Points 2 and 3 regarding the dishwasher refer to using appliances from other manufacturers.
<<<
Okay, understood – I took your points 2 and 3 as a continuation of point 1…
<<<
BEHJÄLPLIG should soon be available again
>>>
Here in Switzerland, BEHJÄLPLIG (as far as I have seen) is readily available, so it could either be leftover stock or already a new supply…
>>>
The KULINARISK is not exactly cheap. You should at least compare it with Siemens appliances.
<<<
Why Siemens??? I already shared a brief opinion about so-called "brand-name appliances" in my first thread. Our current Siemens dishwasher is actually the direct successor of the disposed Electrolux machine. Back then I bought one of the most expensive models… What did I get from that??? Brittle (and broken off) plastic parts inside and rather difficult-to-source spare parts that are “almost unaffordable”! Of course, nothing broke during the warranty period, but shortly afterward… Siemens used to be one of my favorite companies (alongside Bosch) – definitely not anymore. I also disposed of a Bosch vacuum cleaner (which was a test winner, by the way) within the warranty period because it broke down, and I had bought it in Germany (it wasn’t available here somehow and I wanted something good). The whole claiming process was a) too annoying and b) way too complicated for me… and one more thing: you obviously can no longer repair these devices without expensive special tools…
Okay IKEA expert, I’m no longer 20, and I definitely no longer trust big corporations! So now, anything that works reasonably well and comes with a LONG WARRANTY is fine by me, because if a manufacturer offers a 5-year warranty, that must mean something, right? (we will probably only find out in a few years). Whether it ultimately comes from Electrolux or not is absolutely irrelevant to me, as long as I buy it as an IKEA product and have reasonable security for the next 5 years…
Okay, as I already mentioned separately, I am now taking a forced break from kitchen evaluation and have to focus on some other matters.
Greetings from Switzerland
Chris
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