ᐅ Challenging Floor Plan, Plot, and Historic Building – Section 34
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 21:44
B
buttyhome
Dear Forum,
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
B
buttyhome30 May 2025 06:49ypg schrieb:
You don’t need to.
If you install a narrow strip window around 60 or 70 cm (24 or 28 inches) high directly at countertop level in the kitchen, you won’t see the neighbor’s wall when standing in front of the sink, but only your own ground. True – it’s that simple visually. Good point, we’ll bring it up at the next meeting and it’s already implemented mentally.
People only sit there twice, and later a drying rack will be placed there. Oh man, you’ve caught us – that’s exactly where the drying rack will be. We also have a view down into the valley from the garden upstairs.
I once spontaneously tried to see if we could save square meters on the upper floor. The appearance should stay the same, just without balconies.We will definitely discuss that! The two equally sized rooms also have a real advantage. And then the two bathrooms upstairs could share the supply and drainage lines – which would surely save something too.
buttyhome schrieb:
We also have a view of the valley from the garden above. You still have the view of the valley through the window (without a balcony).
If the upper floor is designed like this (or similarly), you could omit the storage room on the exterior wall and instead create an open multifunctional workspace to the left of the service duct for crafting children, sewing fathers, or parents doing bookkeeping.
B
buttyhome30 May 2025 09:33ypg schrieb:
Could the storage room be omitted on the exterior wall? Does AB mean storage room? I'm not very familiar with the abbreviations. I’m actually in favor of it because we are a family of collectors and hoarders.buttyhome schrieb:
Does AB mean storage room? I’m not that familiar with the abbreviations. I’m actually a fan of that, since we are a family of hoarders and collectors. The AB, correct = storage room, which is located internally.
B
buttyhome23 Jun 2025 21:41Here is the next update from us. The architect had already taken some things from our last meeting. The balcony was not yet a topic then, so the current adjustments do not yet include your ideas.
We had pointed out that the living room feels a bit like a corridor, the unequal children's rooms could be problematic, and our children love window seats. Also, the shed for bikes and garden tools was a bit small.
The plans were changed as follows for now:
1. The staircase has been moved slightly forward – so you no longer have to enter the studio through the living room but can access it from the hallway.
2. A cloakroom has been added on the ground floor entrance in addition to the one in the basement.
3. The kitchen and living area have been swapped. To keep the living area spacious, the bay window is now planned slightly larger than before.
4. The storage room next to the kitchen was removed. However, according to the architect, there is sufficient storage space due to the depth of the kitchen island.
5. The fireplace is now open on three sides, acting as a room divider (this is still completely open).
Now for the first floor:
6. Thanks to the larger bay window, the second children’s room has become bigger and now includes a window seat.
This slightly changes the garden-side facade.
For the next round, we brought up the balcony in front of the bedroom for discussion. The architect is considering it but had very good arguments in favor of the balcony:
1. It’s the place to watch the sunset.
2. It faces the street. The balcony allows for floor-to-ceiling windows in the bedroom. With the parapet, the bedroom cannot be seen from outside; without it, you would need smaller windows.
3. The house is quite tall (from the valley side). To avoid the house looking like a disproportionate block, she wanted to give it some steps with the balcony.
What do you think? Costs are not being considered right now...
My concern is the walking space in the kitchen. Currently, there is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) between the row along the back wall (3.50 meters (11 feet 6 inches), 80 centimeters (31.5 inches) deep) and the island (2.50 meters (8 feet 2 inches), 100 centimeters (39 inches) deep). I have read that you need at least 1.20 meters (4 feet), ideally 1.50 meters (5 feet), if two people are cooking together.
Regarding the structure: we are planning a timber frame construction with a wooden facade (larch). The cladding will be horizontal slats to avoid a stretched appearance. The roof has not been decided yet. What would you choose? Tiles? Zinc roof? Extensive green roof (is it even possible with the slope)?
Thanks for your opinions!
We had pointed out that the living room feels a bit like a corridor, the unequal children's rooms could be problematic, and our children love window seats. Also, the shed for bikes and garden tools was a bit small.
The plans were changed as follows for now:
1. The staircase has been moved slightly forward – so you no longer have to enter the studio through the living room but can access it from the hallway.
2. A cloakroom has been added on the ground floor entrance in addition to the one in the basement.
3. The kitchen and living area have been swapped. To keep the living area spacious, the bay window is now planned slightly larger than before.
4. The storage room next to the kitchen was removed. However, according to the architect, there is sufficient storage space due to the depth of the kitchen island.
5. The fireplace is now open on three sides, acting as a room divider (this is still completely open).
Now for the first floor:
6. Thanks to the larger bay window, the second children’s room has become bigger and now includes a window seat.
This slightly changes the garden-side facade.
For the next round, we brought up the balcony in front of the bedroom for discussion. The architect is considering it but had very good arguments in favor of the balcony:
1. It’s the place to watch the sunset.
2. It faces the street. The balcony allows for floor-to-ceiling windows in the bedroom. With the parapet, the bedroom cannot be seen from outside; without it, you would need smaller windows.
3. The house is quite tall (from the valley side). To avoid the house looking like a disproportionate block, she wanted to give it some steps with the balcony.
What do you think? Costs are not being considered right now...
My concern is the walking space in the kitchen. Currently, there is about 1 meter (3 feet 3 inches) between the row along the back wall (3.50 meters (11 feet 6 inches), 80 centimeters (31.5 inches) deep) and the island (2.50 meters (8 feet 2 inches), 100 centimeters (39 inches) deep). I have read that you need at least 1.20 meters (4 feet), ideally 1.50 meters (5 feet), if two people are cooking together.
Regarding the structure: we are planning a timber frame construction with a wooden facade (larch). The cladding will be horizontal slats to avoid a stretched appearance. The roof has not been decided yet. What would you choose? Tiles? Zinc roof? Extensive green roof (is it even possible with the slope)?
Thanks for your opinions!
buttyhome schrieb:
At the moment, there is one meter (3.3 feet) between the row along the back wall (3.50 meters (11.5 feet) wide, 80 cm (31.5 inches) deep) and the island (2.50 meters (8.2 feet) wide, 100 cm (39 inches) deep).Why is the wall row planned with a depth of 80 cm (31.5 inches)? The standard for tall cabinets is 60 cm (24 inches)... depending on the countertop choice, you could also plan for 65 cm (26 inches).If the island is supposed to offer enough storage space, I would suggest increasing its depth to about 110 cm (43 inches)— 60 cm (24 inches) standard cabinet depth on the kitchen side and a reduced 50 cm (20 inches) depth on the living room side. This way, the distance between the rows can be increased to around 105–110 cm (41–43 inches), which is sufficient. A recommended guideline is to be able to move smoothly between work areas without a large intermediate step by rotating from one work area to the other.
Depending on what kind of tall cabinet is planned for the lower left corner (for example, an oven cabinet), I would consider adding a window or a narrow patio door between the rows for better accessibility. This also provides elbow clearance near the window reveals.
In general, consider placing the cooking area along the wall (see Kitchen Planning opalau, also searchable via Google), with the sink on the island. This depends on your cooking habits.
EDIT:
Plan a cabinet and also a desk specifically for Child 1, then adjust the balcony access accordingly. I think the window area there could be somewhat narrower.
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