ᐅ Challenging Floor Plan, Plot, and Historic Building – Section 34
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 21:44
B
buttyhome
Dear Forum,
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
B
buttyhome29 May 2025 18:4611ant schrieb:
How is the little cottage going to be used in this context (since if left unused it would deteriorate, which would be a problem from a heritage conservation perspective)?It will include a bathroom, with sleeping space upstairs, and a craft room at the front for the family, also guest sleeping options. The standard here is modest. Eventually, a child could move in if they need more privacy.
Regarding the initial draft... I would say that nothing immediately caught my attention as something to reconsider. Well, except perhaps adding some natural light to the kitchen area.
Also, maybe try to reduce the length a bit to save some square meters.
Consider balconies.
And for child 1, maybe add a window with a sill height (which might be a style break here) facing south.
Also, maybe try to reduce the length a bit to save some square meters.
Consider balconies.
And for child 1, maybe add a window with a sill height (which might be a style break here) facing south.
I like it. What I notice is no bathtub and the children’s rooms. Both are smaller than just for sleeping, and one is quite a bit smaller than the other.
Is there still a way to get natural light into the kitchen?
What are you planning for the studio?
The modern house in the foreground, compared to the cottage, is definitely interesting and an eye-catcher.
It’s good to see the most being made of the plot.
Are you still able to keep it roughly within the budget?
Is there still a way to get natural light into the kitchen?
What are you planning for the studio?
The modern house in the foreground, compared to the cottage, is definitely interesting and an eye-catcher.
It’s good to see the most being made of the plot.
Are you still able to keep it roughly within the budget?
I really like it. It’s exactly my style. I once had a house with a similar cubic volume, just not as stylish (built in 1978).
How wide is the living/dining area? What is the atelier used for? What is located in the center of the living-dining area?
Is the entrance area sufficient as a cloakroom? There isn’t a wardrobe drawn in there.
The current furniture layout comes from the architect. I recommend everyone draw their own furniture plan into a design. To scale, so you engage with the house dimensions and get a better feel for the space.
Did you fill out the questionnaire back then?
A strip window above the kitchen units would be good – this depends on the arrangement of tall cabinets.
Personally, I prefer the chill-out area to be a bit more hidden, so I tend to swap the kitchen and living areas.
I would replace the shower in the children's bathroom with a bathtub (it’s actually quite comfortable to shower in a bathtub).
Windows up to the gable definitely look amazing, as does the minimalist design. Perhaps you could scale back a bit there.
A 19sqm (205 sq ft) bedroom plus balcony… 17sqm (183 sq ft) children’s room plus balcony… All bedrooms upstairs around 13–14sqm (140–150 sq ft) would be sufficient. Balconies aren’t necessary, they’re just for looks.
On the ground floor, 42sqm (452 sq ft) plus kitchen… many houses manage with a total of 40sqm (430 sq ft) there. So, there are options to build smaller and save money if needed. Even then, the design would surely still retain its unique charm.
How wide is the living/dining area? What is the atelier used for? What is located in the center of the living-dining area?
Is the entrance area sufficient as a cloakroom? There isn’t a wardrobe drawn in there.
The current furniture layout comes from the architect. I recommend everyone draw their own furniture plan into a design. To scale, so you engage with the house dimensions and get a better feel for the space.
Did you fill out the questionnaire back then?
A strip window above the kitchen units would be good – this depends on the arrangement of tall cabinets.
Personally, I prefer the chill-out area to be a bit more hidden, so I tend to swap the kitchen and living areas.
I would replace the shower in the children's bathroom with a bathtub (it’s actually quite comfortable to shower in a bathtub).
buttyhome schrieb:
Construction costs
buttyhome schrieb:Without measurements, it’s hard for us to see where any recesses might be that could possibly be removed. Offhand, I would suggest extending the bay corner outward so that the children’s room gains more space.
Even if we end up building smaller (I’m happy to save every cent).
Windows up to the gable definitely look amazing, as does the minimalist design. Perhaps you could scale back a bit there.
A 19sqm (205 sq ft) bedroom plus balcony… 17sqm (183 sq ft) children’s room plus balcony… All bedrooms upstairs around 13–14sqm (140–150 sq ft) would be sufficient. Balconies aren’t necessary, they’re just for looks.
On the ground floor, 42sqm (452 sq ft) plus kitchen… many houses manage with a total of 40sqm (430 sq ft) there. So, there are options to build smaller and save money if needed. Even then, the design would surely still retain its unique charm.
B
buttyhome29 May 2025 22:57Thank you very much for all the great suggestions.
I also mentioned the kitchen skylight when presenting the plan. The architect left it out because the neighbor’s facade is very unattractive and right on the boundary line. However, it would fit. I don’t like wall cabinets, so I would leave space for two tall cabinets and a window behind the kitchen work area. That space should be sufficient. I will take another look at the neighbor’s facade in person.
Balconies: one was planned for the master bedroom because you can sit there and look over the neighbor’s roof ridge towards the valley, offering a great view. A balcony for the children’s room isn’t necessary; perhaps some space can be saved there.
The master bedroom can be smaller; more space should be created in the smaller children’s room. I don’t have a precise idea yet, but I would plan a window seat in the smaller children’s room, which might lead to some friendly competition over the smaller room…
Studio: this is my family’s workspace; I would work outdoors at the listed building.
Bathtub: nobody uses it here, and luckily, the children are no longer toddlers.
Living room width: just under 4.50 meters (15 feet). I have a 1:100 scale plan but can’t access it at the moment. I will provide it later.
Own furniture: thanks for the tip! I’m making scale models to experiment with.
Space for a coat closet: I also mentioned this directly. We agreed that the seven steps down to the basement can be used without any problem, and the room straight ahead will be used for this purpose. It is well lit by daylight from the entrance area. Guests can hang their coats right by the door.
Budget: if the estimated prices hold, it will be manageable. But there must be no major deviations.
The construction method has not yet been decided. The architect is interested in timber construction. Apparently, it offers many advantages except for soundproofing and fire safety. She estimates the costs to be similar to a solid (masonry) build.
Corner next to the kitchen: a fireplace is planned there.
Thanks for your ideas – I’m very happy – my bank account a bit less so… But this is probably the biggest project you’ll ever undertake.
Oh, and completion is estimated by the end of next year.
I hope I have answered all questions.
I also mentioned the kitchen skylight when presenting the plan. The architect left it out because the neighbor’s facade is very unattractive and right on the boundary line. However, it would fit. I don’t like wall cabinets, so I would leave space for two tall cabinets and a window behind the kitchen work area. That space should be sufficient. I will take another look at the neighbor’s facade in person.
Balconies: one was planned for the master bedroom because you can sit there and look over the neighbor’s roof ridge towards the valley, offering a great view. A balcony for the children’s room isn’t necessary; perhaps some space can be saved there.
The master bedroom can be smaller; more space should be created in the smaller children’s room. I don’t have a precise idea yet, but I would plan a window seat in the smaller children’s room, which might lead to some friendly competition over the smaller room…
Studio: this is my family’s workspace; I would work outdoors at the listed building.
Bathtub: nobody uses it here, and luckily, the children are no longer toddlers.
Living room width: just under 4.50 meters (15 feet). I have a 1:100 scale plan but can’t access it at the moment. I will provide it later.
Own furniture: thanks for the tip! I’m making scale models to experiment with.
Space for a coat closet: I also mentioned this directly. We agreed that the seven steps down to the basement can be used without any problem, and the room straight ahead will be used for this purpose. It is well lit by daylight from the entrance area. Guests can hang their coats right by the door.
Budget: if the estimated prices hold, it will be manageable. But there must be no major deviations.
The construction method has not yet been decided. The architect is interested in timber construction. Apparently, it offers many advantages except for soundproofing and fire safety. She estimates the costs to be similar to a solid (masonry) build.
Corner next to the kitchen: a fireplace is planned there.
Thanks for your ideas – I’m very happy – my bank account a bit less so… But this is probably the biggest project you’ll ever undertake.
Oh, and completion is estimated by the end of next year.
I hope I have answered all questions.
buttyhome schrieb:
I’m taking another look at the neighbor’s facade in the original.You don’t need to. buttyhome schrieb:
because there is a very unattractive facade on the neighbor’s side right at the boundary.If you install a narrow strip window about 60 or 70cm (24 or 28 inches) high at the height of the kitchen countertop, then when standing at the sink you won’t see the neighbor’s wall, only your own ground. buttyhome schrieb:
because when sitting there you can look over the neighbor’s roof ridge down towards the valley.And then you sit there on the balcony instead of walking through your own property? Don’t imagine sitting there too idyllically. The window alone is enough for the view. Such a “lookout” balcony is overrated. You sit there twice, and later there will be a drying rack. buttyhome schrieb:
We agreed that it’s easy to walk down the seven steps to the basement and that the room straight ahead will be used for that.Oh… I don’t think that’s very practical. Well, you have to accept a compromise. I once quickly tried to see if you can save square meters by changing the upper floor. The appearance should stay the same, just without balconies.
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