ᐅ Challenging Floor Plan, Plot, and Historic Building – Section 34
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 21:44
B
buttyhome
Dear Forum,
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
buttyhome schrieb:
The half-timbered house stands on a masonry foundation that is over 200 years old. I wouldn’t call it a concrete slab.Yippy. That’s something different. Well, one could consider consulting a structural engineer to see if it can simply be filled in. But I think I would probably remove it.
K a t j a schrieb:
That can’t be right, can it? @ypg Yvonne, do you have measurements like that too? Mine are approximately 3.50 x 7.50 meters (11.5 x 24.6 feet).
buttyhome schrieb:
But I can’t stand this prison wall right in front of the house. I demolished the wall.
buttyhome schrieb:
I’m curious if it’s legally possible to extend the connection between the listed building and the main house, and thereby raise your terrace one floor higher onto the roof. I can imagine that’s possible, but I don’t see the point: a) sitting on a platform right next to the neighbor’s garden, and b) enabling all kinds of access from the upper floor. You have the accessible slope to the north. So what’s the need for an additional terrace on the ground floor?
buttyhome schrieb:
If the courtyard is nicely designed, for example paved with large pots framing the seating area, it could really look great: Yes, I can definitely imagine that. How important is parking space for cars on your site?
buttyhome schrieb:
View in the same direction behind the house. Apparently, the slope was excavated here for this extension. The extension seems to be a basement cellar.
B
buttyhome24 Feb 2025 11:16Sometimes things turn out differently.
I have not yet received a response from the building authority, but I have had an initial hearing with the heritage conservation office. Apparently, the floor plan with the room layout and the number of floors is also to be protected. Unfortunately, this means the small house will no longer be habitable (with a ceiling height of 2.05 meters (6 feet 9 inches), I also cannot rent it out). Therefore, I will renovate it with minimal effort—perhaps installing utility connections, a laundry room, a small workshop, or something similar.
On the other hand, I can now freely position the new building on the plot, preferably built in a closed construction style along the north side to allow more light from the south.
It’s really a pity; I really liked the combination of old and new building structures.
I have not yet received a response from the building authority, but I have had an initial hearing with the heritage conservation office. Apparently, the floor plan with the room layout and the number of floors is also to be protected. Unfortunately, this means the small house will no longer be habitable (with a ceiling height of 2.05 meters (6 feet 9 inches), I also cannot rent it out). Therefore, I will renovate it with minimal effort—perhaps installing utility connections, a laundry room, a small workshop, or something similar.
On the other hand, I can now freely position the new building on the plot, preferably built in a closed construction style along the north side to allow more light from the south.
It’s really a pity; I really liked the combination of old and new building structures.
In Sweden, we had nice accommodations with low ceilings, I would say even under 2 meters (6 ft 7 in). If I can’t pass through the door with heeled shoes or keep hitting the lamp, it’s quite uncomfortable. This was also mentioned in the description. None of us are particularly tall. It might be an option for you at some point, too.
Focus on the main house. By the way, you’ll also need space for tires, bicycles, children’s play equipment, the grill, patio furniture, wheelbarrows, and so on. That’s much nicer than a garden shed from the hardware store.
Focus on the main house. By the way, you’ll also need space for tires, bicycles, children’s play equipment, the grill, patio furniture, wheelbarrows, and so on. That’s much nicer than a garden shed from the hardware store.
buttyhome schrieb:
I haven’t received a response from the building authority yet, but I did get an initial hearing from the heritage office. Apparently, the floor plan including the room layout and number of floors is also going to be protected. Unfortunately, this means the small house will no longer be habitable (with a ceiling height of 2.05 meters (6 ft 9 in), I also can’t rent it out).I would suggest talking to the mayor and having my lawyer contact the head of the heritage office as a precaution to ask if they are really serious. Or maybe the monument conservator personally has their eye on the property? They can beam the tiny cabin straight into the open-air museum if they want. Expecting a property buyer to act as a patron for an economically useless outbuilding is unreasonable. Public authorities must act according to the principle of proportionality — we’re not talking about the Shroud of Turin here. Sometimes you wonder if they’re sitting in their ivory tower smoking asbestos joints.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
B
buttyhome24 Feb 2025 15:4911ant schrieb:
I would start by talking to the mayor and, as a precaution, have my lawyer contact the head of the heritage preservation office to ask if they are still in their right mind. Or is the heritage officer themselves actually keen on the property?
They can beam the tiny hut into the open-air museum for all I care. A property buyer cannot be expected to play patron for an economically useless outbuilding. Official actions must comply with the principle of proportionality, after all, we are not talking about the Shroud of Turin here. Sometimes you wonder if they are rolling asbestos joints in their ivory tower. I would love to send this post as a reply to the heritage authority. Made my day! Perhaps afterward, working constructively with them wouldn’t be quite so smooth anymore.