ᐅ Strategy for Buying a Kitchen / How to Negotiate Effectively?

Scout schrieb:

Big fail – IKEA offers a 25 (sic!) year warranty on their kitchens:

But not on the built-in components. And everyone familiar with IKEA knows the claims process: You won’t be removing a cabinet just to get reimbursed $87.50. You’ll end up repairing it yourself somehow, because anything else would simply be impractical.

My friend opened a studio. He previously worked for 8 years in furniture retail. He is a member of the association and apparently has good connections. He said that especially now during the coronavirus pandemic, people are buying kitchens like crazy. The profit margin is huge! If he sells 2-3 kitchens costing five figures each, he makes a better living than as an employee! Any complaints are handled by the manufacturer or the association. He is only the intermediary.

Although I come from consumer electronics—not white goods but brown goods—I think the rules are quite similar. The profit margin on electronic devices will never be better than on furniture. For none.

The lack of transparency doesn’t come from not being able to get offers from different kitchen retailers, but from never knowing at a kitchen retailer whether a tall cabinet costs this much more or that much more extra.

With these package deals, sometimes the situation is that if you add two wall cabinets, suddenly the kitchen ends up cheaper than without them.

That’s what’s frustrating.

I bought my current fitted kitchen from Nolte with a 3m (10 feet) run and 1.80m (6 feet) peninsula for about 6,500 EUR (around 7,000 USD) five years ago. The nominal price, however, was 12,000 EUR (around 13,000 USD).

And then he gave me some extras as gifts. Back then, I was simply clueless and didn’t want to deal with IKEA. But I think he offered me that almost 50% discount practically without me asking. On inquiry, I just got a cutlery insert and some other small stuff. I’m not sure what would have happened if I had brought an offer from another retailer that was maybe 1,500 EUR (1,600 USD) cheaper.

If a kitchen retailer said, “Look, a base cabinet 80cm (31.5 inches) costs 300 EUR (320 USD), wall cabinet 250 EUR (270 USD), and tall cabinet 500 EUR (530 USD) including all fronts and interiors. You just add everything up, and in the end, you get 20% off if your total exceeds 20,000 EUR (21,000 USD),” then probably no one would complain.

But as it is, I would probably just go to IKEA.

ypg schrieb:

I would also find that odd. They probably hardly make any profit on the furniture itself but more on the electrical work. In the end, it’s all a mixed calculation where, for example, the warranty is also factored in. All of that is included in the price.

Is it forbidden to keep appliances from the "old" kitchen when buying a new one? We didn’t want to buy a car with the carburetor removed, after all.

ypg schrieb:

Ikea buyers love DIY, they’d rather budget a few days of fixing things if something is loose or pulling, than pay an extra $500 for a 4-year warranty.

No, quite traditional and old-fashioned, done by the trusted carpenter/kitchen fitter and paid with real money. Seems like the usual stereotyped snap judgment kicked in again? This time it’s the “stingy Ikea cheapskates,” who’s next?
The main thing is to criticize everyone broadly—that makes life noticeably easier.

ypg schrieb:

A bargain price always equals cheap quality, let’s not kid ourselves.

Maybe that’s how it is in your experience, which might explain your obvious assumption.
In our house, we have worked with almost the same craftsmen, kitchen installers, and our small, fine furniture store for 30 years. You can be sure that this long-standing relationship was not built on the stinginess or unfairness you’re suggesting here.
We have also regularly ordered from abroad almost blindly and paid without ever having seen the result live—do you do that too? ...even though we are supposedly silly Ikea kitchen buyers. So how does your generalization hold up?
Honestly, your blatant accusation and general pre-judgment of me and others as rip-off artists or unfair business partners bother me. By the way, we ourselves are extremely loyal customers,—from our dentist to carpet layers; as long as their business operated, we never switched.
Apparently, there are only the “good guys,” which of course includes you, and the stingy, unfair, and foolish ones, meaning me and some others here. Always nice and simple black-and-white thinking, because it’s easier and makes you feel more comfortable in the light.
This is only about some occasional rude and inappropriate behavior by certain sellers—what do you say about these stark examples mentioned here? Or do you have to fail and be humiliated before you’re finally considered a “decent customer”? Always black and white, or good and bad. That seems to be life for some people.

ypg schrieb:

...I’m just wondering if there is transparency in car sales when the selling price is €3100 (about $3350) below the MSRP. Does anyone get upset about the opaque pricing then? Why can one dealer do it and another not?

Did someone say this only happens in kitchen sales? No, you must have misread it! It’s simply a rejection of brazen sales tactics, which you confuse with stinginess or ignorance on the buyer’s part. I would be equally annoyed by an unpleasant car salesman. The connection to car sales might partly apply, as some former car salesmen are now working in kitchens or prefabricated house sales.

ypg schrieb:

For most people, it’s all about “what’s your final price,” and not only with foreign customers.

Wow—that includes a few real clichés. I thought people only thought those quietly nowadays in some dark living room.
Have you ever lived abroad, beyond a regional border, to say such blunt things? I have experienced particularly polite manners and usually fair sales interactions in places like Arabia (not just at a popular all-inclusive buffet for two weeks on a beach vacation!). You probably watch too many bad movies or visit weird websites. Just go there yourself, immerse yourself with the people, and then you’ll talk differently about it.
Your description of your kitchen purchase shows nothing particularly remarkable. Please stop treating others here en masse as fools—“most people” and “foreigners” all wanting everything for free, just complaining and being stingy, while you walk through life as a role model. I’m curious if you can handle the backlash to your loud statements.

ypg schrieb:

Yeah, disgusting. The homeowner chooses very expensive 100cm x 100cm (about 40 inches x 40 inches) tiles or 15cm x 120cm (6 inches x 47 inches), and the tiler adjusts the labor price accordingly, then gets called disgusting.

You seem to love misleading comparisons to paint your point nicely, okay!
Just as a reminder: It was described that the only tilers available demanded a “take-it-or-leave-it” approach (quote from the homeowner) and charged €100 (about $110) per square meter ($9 per square foot) for tiling, which he had to “swallow” out of necessity.
If this work was done under difficult conditions, e.g., on New Year’s Eve night, overhead, or in a cold storage area, or required special workmanship, I understand a different price. But I based my response only on what was stated: “take-it-or-leave-it” behavior—“tiling for €100/sq m (about $9/sq ft),” and solely on this information.
So, by your view, this “take-it-or-leave-it” approach by those three craftsmen should be accepted as fair, while the customer who questions prices in the kitchen showroom is called stingy and foolish. Aha...

ypg schrieb:

Do people also complain about the higher inspection price when they buy a Range Rover, Porsche, or Mercedes AMG?

Funny how some people like to portray others as general idiots to give their own position more weight. Okay, that makes it easier, so that’s probably why.
By the way, I don’t drive any of those so-called “cheap vehicles” out of conviction but pay cash for quality.

ypg schrieb:

You’re not going to dismantle a cabinet just to get it replaced for $87.50. You’ll find a way to repair it yourself because anything else would simply be ridiculous.

.... "ridiculous" for you, but that doesn’t mean it’s always like that.
A carpenter or appropriate professional assembles the Ikea kitchen and guarantees their workmanship. The next day, the same tradesperson installs the Nolte kitchen from a kitchen showroom next door. It’s that simple.
You’re stating something I have repeatedly—and honestly even unexpectedly positively—experienced; that doesn’t mean one option is automatically “ridiculous” just because you apparently aren’t familiar with it.

Tolentino schrieb:

Although I come from consumer electronics—not appliances but brown goods—I think the rules are quite similar. The profit margin on electronics will never be better than on furniture. For none.

The lack of transparency doesn’t come from not being able to get kitchen quotes from different dealers, but from never knowing if a tall cabinet costs this much extra or that much at a particular dealer.

Sometimes with these package deals, you add two wall cabinets and suddenly the kitchen is cheaper than without them. That’s what’s frustrating.

I bought my current fitted kitchen from Nolte with a 3m (10 feet) run and a 1.80m (6 feet) peninsula for about 6,500 EUR (around $7,000) five years ago. The list price was actually 12,000 EUR (around $13,000). Then he gave me some extras as well. Back then I was simply clueless and didn’t want IKEA. But I think he offered me this nearly 50% discount essentially without me asking. When I did ask, he added a cutlery tray and some other small things. I’m not sure what would have happened if I had brought a competing offer that was maybe 1,500 EUR (around $1,600) cheaper.

If a kitchen dealer said, listen, a base cabinet 80cm (31.5 inches) costs 300 EUR (around $320), a wall cabinet 250 EUR (around $265), and a tall cabinet 500 EUR (around $530) including all fronts and interiors—you just add it all up and get 20% off if your order exceeds 20,000 EUR (around $21,000)—then probably no one would complain.

But as it is, I’d probably just go to IKEA.

EXACTLY, that’s the point!