ᐅ Log Cabin with Half-Hipped Roof by the Forest – How to Improve the Design?
Created on: 11 Jun 2018 19:45
K
keychain
Hello everyone,
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
We have also been thinking about other things:
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
- All windows can be opened.
- Sliding doors open outwards, not inwards.
- All dormer windows will not be rectangular but have added triangular tops.
- Between the hallway and living area there is no central post; instead, a large double door is planned.
- The basement has a technical room beside the stairs, designed as a through room. In my opinion, this is a poor solution; we probably also need to plan a separate boiler room.
- Where the embankment is drawn, doors will be installed. This will allow the large rooms to get natural daylight and be usable living space.
- The stair step projecting into the hallway is bad and will definitely be removed.
We have also been thinking about other things:
- The hallway upstairs is planned as a “library.” To bring in light, we intend to use two light wells with diameters of 30–35cm (12–14 inches). The advantage: it will never be completely dark at night when someone needs to use the bathroom.
- The fireplace will be a soapstone stove; no plan exists yet. Strictly speaking, it will not stand against a wall but form the wall itself. We also planned a second connection in the fireplace room; originally we wanted a tunnel fireplace but were convinced it’s not a good idea as a room divider.
- The children’s rooms are not ideal — one faces north, the other south. We could make two narrow, elongated rooms and a corridor so both face south, but we consider that clearly suboptimal.
- All doors on the ground floor will be 1m (3.3 feet) wide to at least accommodate wheelchair access reasonably.
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
kaho674 schrieb:
Another questionable response. Your own designs were full of stair landings. But now it’s said that’s not allowed. Huh? And then they can only be prohibited on the lower floor? Huh again? What is this person talking about? Does he mean something completely different? My designs had plenty of landings because the architect said: a straight staircase is not possible. But I also want to be able to get a cabinet upstairs without bumping into everything, so I prefer a landing over a spiral staircase. The last design has spiral stairs because I didn’t see any landings when I made it.
kaho674 schrieb:
It is usually a bad idea to present your own ideas to an architect – especially as a non-professional. This profession tends to implement those ideas 100% without applying their own judgment. That’s why it’s better to go in without a design and just communicate your wishes. It’s not like we didn’t do that. Multiple times. That’s why I wrote such a long reply. Direct quote to every architect: I don’t want to plan a house; I have no idea how to do that. I have ideal visions and I know what I absolutely do not want. Nothing more, nothing less.
It’s really great if it’s different for you, but that’s not been our experience, and it’s not due to some ego thinking we can do everything better when we eventually give up and say: Let’s try it ourselves and get advice from others – it can’t be worse than the architect.
It’s truly good to know and follow the theory. We bought the plot at the end of 2016, and have been planning ever since. Nothing was rushed initially, no big time pressure. But we never experienced getting truly original or good proposals. I had heard stories about architects just bringing drafts from other building projects at the first three meetings to “work through” phases 1 and 2 of the architect contract, knowing that’s not what the clients wanted. We have now experienced that twice. We have run out of all time buffers, and I no longer rely on anyone coming up with a solution.
keychain schrieb:
My designs were full of landings because the architect said: A straight staircase isn’t possible.Hahahaha 300m² (3230 sq ft) – but no straight staircase. I would have said, “Thanks for your time. I’ll try elsewhere.”keychain schrieb:
I have ideal visions and I know what I definitely do not want. Nothing more, nothing less.It’s easier if you know what you want. That doesn’t mean you have to have the entire plan in mind. But something like, I’d like a straight staircase, a huge living room with a wall of windows, a bathroom with a whirlpool or sauna, etc.keychain schrieb:
I’ve now experienced this twice. We’ve used up all our time buffers, and I no longer rely on someone coming up with a good solution.So it seems you’re out of architects—at least the good ones—in your area. Yes, that’s unfortunate.But honestly, you want to invest a million into a design that looks to a real architect like a first grader’s doodle. Maybe you have another 10,000 somewhere and money isn’t an issue for a second house—but the building plot is gone! And those are scarce right now.
keychain schrieb:
...But many things are exactly as they should be—for example, the kitchen with the 4m (13 feet) long island, where you can finally work properly...You actually can’t, unless you are planning a production line with 3–4 people.
I was talking about a 6-meter (20 feet) long kitchen with a long obstacle in it. Let’s say that obstacle is a 4-meter (13 feet) island, then you end up with a workspace about one meter (3 feet) wide by four meters (13 feet) long, where you have to walk long distances. This area ends in a bend and because of the L-shaped kitchen layout, the distance gets even longer.
Two people might occasionally bump into each other, but I’m not trying to discourage your long design. Just think about how the workflow in the kitchen will work... it actually works best when arranged in a triangle: storage, cleaning, and preparation—fridge, sink, stove—not side by side, where one person might constantly have to walk around the other. Everyday use is not about a show kitchen with everything cleaned and arranged around the stove like chickens on a spit, but rather about efficient work with as few steps as possible. You should be able to accomplish a lot with just one or two steps. So it makes sense to let an architect or planner handle this.
P.S. Since I’m writing from my phone without Tapatalk, I can’t access the photos right now and am describing the kitchen from memory.
Edit: I’ve looked again at the original first plan as an example: without the L shape, but that doesn’t change the point. What happens if one person is unloading the property? Does the other have to walk all the way around because of a dead-end?
kaho674 schrieb:
But honestly, you want to invest a million in a design that, compared to a real architect’s work—let’s be honest—looks like a first grader’s scribble. Maybe you still have 10 million somewhere and money doesn’t matter for a second house—but then you lose your building plot! And right now, there aren’t many of those available. It would be nice if that were the case. No, we don’t have that much money and probably never will; at most, we could remove some stud walls in the existing house and create new rooms. But I don’t think it would be that bad—if you look past the detailed quality of my design and just focus on the layout of the rooms, I don’t think it’s as terrible as it’s being portrayed here. It may not be ideal for everyone, and maybe there are some major mistakes, but these are not being pointed out here—some people don’t like large rooms with high ceilings, but that’s exactly what we want. Others don’t like the layout with all the “private” rooms upstairs and the guest/utility/play area downstairs. We can imagine it well, but we still made sure to have an alternative. At first, they said: separate children’s and parents’ areas. We have done that; we could even add a partition wall in the hallway. At least now the children’s areas are on the same level as the parents’ living spaces, which might make things easier in winter. The staircase isn’t perfect, but it’s no longer so cramped that it couldn’t be properly designed, and it’s still just a draft.
Maybe not all good architects are gone—we just haven’t found a good timber house architect yet. Maybe we will find one at HUF, who knows. In any case, I don’t have one option: to withdraw the building permit / planning permission application and think about it for another year, because then I won’t have the land anymore. And maybe you could at least look at the design a bit more positively and see that two amateurs really put a lot of effort into their children’s scribbles and actually gave it some thought. You don’t always have to be dismissive, even if it’s easier. Or is it really so satisfying to constantly point out someone’s incompetence, just because the house ends up being more expensive? I have definitely seen threads here where the reaction was much more positive when someone made an effort, picked up ideas, and tried to implement them.
@ypg
The kitchen work triangle is intentionally located in the rear part of the kitchen. On the short side there are tall cabinets housing the combi-steamer and possibly an oven; the cooktop will probably be installed not in the middle but also in the rear third of the long side of the island. Two refrigerated drawers go into the island, with the sink then along the long side against the wall. This layout creates very short distances with two work zones: cooking and preparing/plating. With 1.20m (47 inches) spacing, you can move back and forth easily and still pass by each other. On the balcony side, 1.5m (59 inches) of space is planned. The dishwasher is placed towards the front, as are the dish cabinets under the island. Only cooking utensils, casserole dishes, and pots are stored at the back, along with the drawer labeled “tools.” We have already “test cooked” with an island almost 3 meters (10 feet) long, along with other variations. Some minor changes will surely come, but the only potential problem is the distance to the dining table. We can and want to live with that—that’s part of having a large house.
haydee schrieb:
Definitely talk to the consultant and the representative from Meisterhaus We will talk to everyone – we have nothing to lose. Anything that goes over the budget can still be eliminated, but maybe we can keep some clever detail solutions. It doesn’t have to be fully glazed all around like the show home "Aussicht" by HUF.
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