ᐅ Log Cabin with Half-Hipped Roof by the Forest – How to Improve the Design?
Created on: 11 Jun 2018 19:45
K
keychain
Hello everyone,
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
We have also been thinking about other things:
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
We have been planning and actively reading for over a year now. As our plans become more concrete, we would like to present our design and get your feedback.
First of all: Yes, the house is big. It is our dream, we are doing a lot of the work ourselves, and we know that we cannot extend it further — the situation here is a bit unusual, as strictly speaking this is only officially buildable land for a short time window.
A brief introduction: I am 36 years old and co-owner of an IT company. My partner is 31 and works as a lecturer. About two years ago, we found our dream plot — a little over 2800sqm (about 0.7 acres), with direct forest access and located in the third row. All neighboring plots are, as far as possible, already built on, mostly with former weekend houses or residential homes.
First, the questionnaire:
Building plan / restrictions?
No, there is no building plan, so we are following common local building standards. The neighboring house has two full stories, which we are using as a reference.
Plot size
2800sqm (about 0.7 acres)
Slope
Slight slope; we are on a ridge of the Ore Mountains. The building site has a height difference of max. 60cm (about 2 feet) from northeast to southwest. The entire plot slopes about 1.80m (6 feet) downward to the south along the west boundary. Rocky ground starting at 2.5m (8 feet) depth.
Plot ratio / floor area ratio
No exact figures known; according to the lawyer from the building permit office, we are well within limits.
Building envelope, building line and boundary
None
Boundary setbacks
Do you mean setback distances and boundary construction? If so: 3m (10 feet) all around; boundary construction for sheds and garages is theoretically permitted.
Number of parking spaces
1–2 under the porch + double garage.
Number of floors
2
Roof type
Half-hipped roof (Dutch hip roof).
Architectural style
Hmm... not sure?
Orientation
South-southwest
Maximum height/limits
None
Other requirements
Homeowners’ needs
We want our house to welcome us. Warm wood, natural building materials, lots of light and air — high ceilings, large beams. It should blend well with the environment, be warm and cozy.
Style, roof type, building type
Log house made from glue-laminated beams (probably Finnlog).
Basement, floors
Fully basemented with two full floors.
Number of residents, age
Currently 2 people. Children may come, parents as well.
Space requirements on ground floor and upper floor
Currently about 300sqm (about 3200 sqft). This seems quite large, but looking at individual rooms (living/dining area) I don’t know where else to put the sound system. Maybe the planning is off or our space expectations are. We don’t have a TV; the fireplace is the central element.
Office: family use or home office?
An office is planned, but only as a fallback. I don’t want to work from home and only need space for private files and a desk.
Guest bedrooms per year
Variable, currently very few. Hopefully many more with the house — then we can accommodate them.
Open or closed architecture
Mixed. I prefer open, but an open void above the living area is not possible if you don’t want all cooking smells in the bedroom.
Traditional or modern construction
Hmm... solid wood house? Traditional.
Open kitchen, cooking island
An open, large kitchen with a big island where more than two people can cook comfortably. No seating in the kitchen, but a huge workspace.
Number of dining seats
10
Fireplace
Yes, a large soapstone stove.
Music / stereo wall
I am considering installating a Sonos system with a music room in the basement.
Balcony, roof terrace
No; we have a garden for that.
Garage, carport
Both; at least the entrance canopy is large enough for one car.
Vegetable garden, greenhouse
We want a greenhouse, a swimming pond, and a fire pit.
Other wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why or why not
House design
Who designed it:
The design was created with an architect, based on our drafts.
What do you particularly like? Why?
High ceilings and visible ceiling beams on the upper floor, separated area upstairs for us, the fireplace room as a second retreat, the single-story “extension” for the dining room, the large kitchen, the fireplaces... and especially the abundant wood.
What don’t you like? Why?
The gable windows should get an added triangular top to maximize light. The current window layout feels a bit outdated. We actually wanted an open void, but this can’t be sensibly integrated. Heating is a constant issue and never fully resolved.
The worst: the master bathroom fixtures. We want a large bathtub and a double shower. Either the bathroom is too small or we lack imagination. It doesn’t look cozy...
Preferred heating system: currently unfortunately natural gas. Solid fuel heating is out for various reasons: a wood gasifier is too expensive and labor-intensive; pellet or woodchip stoves are not economical, plus we can’t reliably get deliveries in winter when the road is snowed in. Natural gas is about 100m (330 feet) away; we are still waiting for connection cost estimates. Heat pumps only make financial sense with geothermal; however, installation and technology would then be more expensive than a current compact car. We do not want oil heating or liquefied gas tanks.
If you have to omit something, which details/extensions
-can you omit:
-can you not omit:
Why is the design like it is now? For example:
The architect received a draft from us, every room was discussed beforehand (use, size, contents), and the design was revised multiple times. We like that it implements nearly everything we wanted and that the house does not look too bulky — due to the half-hipped roof and the gables, it does not seem so on the plans at least.
What is your most important / basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Apart from the effort for plastering: is the floor plan practical? For example: washing machine on the first floor where laundry occurs, bathroom for the children...
Now some free text — our notes:
Some things are already different from the plans:
- All windows can be opened.
- Sliding doors open outwards, not inwards.
- All dormer windows will not be rectangular but have added triangular tops.
- Between the hallway and living area there is no central post; instead, a large double door is planned.
- The basement has a technical room beside the stairs, designed as a through room. In my opinion, this is a poor solution; we probably also need to plan a separate boiler room.
- Where the embankment is drawn, doors will be installed. This will allow the large rooms to get natural daylight and be usable living space.
- The stair step projecting into the hallway is bad and will definitely be removed.
We have also been thinking about other things:
- The hallway upstairs is planned as a “library.” To bring in light, we intend to use two light wells with diameters of 30–35cm (12–14 inches). The advantage: it will never be completely dark at night when someone needs to use the bathroom.
- The fireplace will be a soapstone stove; no plan exists yet. Strictly speaking, it will not stand against a wall but form the wall itself. We also planned a second connection in the fireplace room; originally we wanted a tunnel fireplace but were convinced it’s not a good idea as a room divider.
- The children’s rooms are not ideal — one faces north, the other south. We could make two narrow, elongated rooms and a corridor so both face south, but we consider that clearly suboptimal.
- All doors on the ground floor will be 1m (3.3 feet) wide to at least accommodate wheelchair access reasonably.
I think that’s it. Thanks for your opinions!
Hm, I think the original poster has left the discussion... too much criticism.
I can understand that they submitted the building application to avoid losing the building rights. And if I’m correctly informed, a building permit / planning permission remains valid for 5 years. Within that time, a fairly comprehensive amendment application will need to be submitted.
So, it would basically be interesting to know what I can still change with such an amendment application—meaning: how far can I go with it? Could it potentially become a completely new house, or do I have to stay within the scope of the submitted building application? I’m not sure about that. We will also need an amendment, but for completely different reasons (an existing garage needs to be replaced, which was not planned), and the actual house only has a few changed windows. So, I don’t know how far an amendment can or may interfere with the original plan. That’s what I’d try to find out first.
And then I’d look for an architect who knows how to deal with the building authorities. I speak from my own, painful experience here. An architect who can and wants to work with the local building department will be able to get much more out of the process than one who just throws their plans at the officials.
As for the drafts submitted here one after another (where I consistently prefer Kaho’s over the original poster’s): I also find it difficult to find a clear direction.
Honestly, I find the originally presented log house simply dreadful from the outside. A house with 300sqm (3,230 sqft) offers many interesting possibilities, but this one looks like two log cabins that have been enlarged and glued together in the middle.
It doesn’t have to be Bauhaus style, but something like this???
And the awkward exterior translates into an almost nonsensical interior layout. So, as I said: how far can I actually change the overall shell with an amendment?
Regarding odor sensitivity:
I don’t know how many times I have said this here already: I have tried all variants—separate kitchen, kitchen combined with living space but separated, open-plan living/cooking/dining area.
When roasting meat, the smell spreads throughout the entire house, no matter how separated the kitchen is. And, at least for me, it smells good at first—not bothersome. After that, there are only a few effective ways to get rid of cooking odors:
- having a very effective exhaust ventilation
- having a controlled ventilation system (which I would always recommend; dry air is a fixable problem and mainly happens with poor ventilation systems)
- airing out the whole house after cooking (already a lot of work for 120sqm (1,290 sqft), for 300sqm (3,230 sqft)—good luck!—not to mention the heat loss in winter)
- restricting oneself to a cold kitchen (no strong-smelling cheese or onions)
For a 300sqm (3,230 sqft) house I would always recommend a very good exhaust system combined with controlled ventilation. Then you can have an open space or a gallery (which makes sense in a house of this size).
Here, two children’s bedrooms with a bathroom are planned, plus an additional guest area with a bathroom.
Yet it is not even certain whether they want to have children at all.
So worst case: about 20% of the total living area is planned for children’s rooms and bathrooms, but no children ever arrive. Not because it didn’t work (which is bad enough), but because they don’t want any.
I would incorporate this situation into the planning. Meaning: no children’s rooms to start with, but the possibility to create a children’s area with a few modifications if it becomes necessary. If not, as a couple maybe you allow yourselves a spare bedroom (for snoring, illness, etc.) and otherwise a spacious living area that can include a library, a music room, or anything else.
A good architect can offer concepts for this.
A residential palace of this size for two people should definitely include a straight, representative staircase, an open space or gallery (ideal for a library unit), a well-planned central kitchen, a huge table (there is plenty of space and it seems the owners like to have many guests). Possibly also a second, somewhat separate living area so one can retreat. This could be where a TV is placed, in case they ever want one.
In the private area, a wellness bathroom with all the fancy features. Before spending money on children’s rooms and bathrooms that might never be used, I’d rather invest there. I remember reading something about a sauna house by a lake? That’s really amazing! If you can plan it large enough with a relaxation room and shower, basically an outdoor wellness area, that’s a dream. Otherwise, include a sauna in the wellness bath because it doesn’t work when the sauna is outside, and you then have to walk back inside for showering and resting.
A utility room for laundry on the upper floor near the private area.
Oh yes: the last drafts were without a basement. Despite the large living area, I would massively miss storage space, and I don’t think I saw a freezer room.
Freezer! That reminds me: I read something about having the freezer chest in the barn. HELP!!!
You’re building a 300sqm (3,230 sqft) house for two people, cooking for 20 to 50 people, and if you need something from the freezer in the middle of the cooking spree, you have to run out to the barn? Seriously???
With this amount of space, there absolutely should be a pantry, at least large enough to house the freezer, and I bet you will love it. If you cook so extensively, you should definitely have an appropriate “back of house” concept in the kitchen, especially when you have the space. You can also store ready-made meals temporarily, etc. VERY practical, I swear.
Overall, I get the impression that you have your wishes, but they’re all still floating around individually in your head. There is no overall concept or reality check. What makes sense, what is important, what do I sacrifice for what, what would I give up?
This already shows in the plan with two children’s rooms and a bathroom, although it is not even certain that you want children. Something doesn’t add up there.
You want a large kitchen with professional-level equipment, but the freezer is in a barn outside. Have you ever cooked in a commercial kitchen? The freezer and fridge should be as close as possible, not a long walk away. And there is a reason for that…
And then: you’ve probably had parties at home before? Where do they end? Exactly, in the kitchen. So, especially if you like having guests, it makes sense to put the kitchen and dining area next to each other and not plan a (quiet) living area in between. That is just completely without concept. And that’s what I stumble on with all your drafts: lack of concept, and it’s defended passionately.
Also in this category: you plan meals for up to 50 people, but how is that going to work with the entrance area? Will you give specific arrival times so that at most four guests come at once? There’s simply no more space. Anyone who likes many guests has to consider that already in the entrance area planning. A room concept that fits maybe four people simply isn’t enough.
And so on and so forth. Overall, it’s still very unrefined, and moving rooms around won’t help.
I can understand that they submitted the building application to avoid losing the building rights. And if I’m correctly informed, a building permit / planning permission remains valid for 5 years. Within that time, a fairly comprehensive amendment application will need to be submitted.
So, it would basically be interesting to know what I can still change with such an amendment application—meaning: how far can I go with it? Could it potentially become a completely new house, or do I have to stay within the scope of the submitted building application? I’m not sure about that. We will also need an amendment, but for completely different reasons (an existing garage needs to be replaced, which was not planned), and the actual house only has a few changed windows. So, I don’t know how far an amendment can or may interfere with the original plan. That’s what I’d try to find out first.
And then I’d look for an architect who knows how to deal with the building authorities. I speak from my own, painful experience here. An architect who can and wants to work with the local building department will be able to get much more out of the process than one who just throws their plans at the officials.
As for the drafts submitted here one after another (where I consistently prefer Kaho’s over the original poster’s): I also find it difficult to find a clear direction.
Honestly, I find the originally presented log house simply dreadful from the outside. A house with 300sqm (3,230 sqft) offers many interesting possibilities, but this one looks like two log cabins that have been enlarged and glued together in the middle.
It doesn’t have to be Bauhaus style, but something like this???
And the awkward exterior translates into an almost nonsensical interior layout. So, as I said: how far can I actually change the overall shell with an amendment?
Regarding odor sensitivity:
I don’t know how many times I have said this here already: I have tried all variants—separate kitchen, kitchen combined with living space but separated, open-plan living/cooking/dining area.
When roasting meat, the smell spreads throughout the entire house, no matter how separated the kitchen is. And, at least for me, it smells good at first—not bothersome. After that, there are only a few effective ways to get rid of cooking odors:
- having a very effective exhaust ventilation
- having a controlled ventilation system (which I would always recommend; dry air is a fixable problem and mainly happens with poor ventilation systems)
- airing out the whole house after cooking (already a lot of work for 120sqm (1,290 sqft), for 300sqm (3,230 sqft)—good luck!—not to mention the heat loss in winter)
- restricting oneself to a cold kitchen (no strong-smelling cheese or onions)
For a 300sqm (3,230 sqft) house I would always recommend a very good exhaust system combined with controlled ventilation. Then you can have an open space or a gallery (which makes sense in a house of this size).
Here, two children’s bedrooms with a bathroom are planned, plus an additional guest area with a bathroom.
Yet it is not even certain whether they want to have children at all.
So worst case: about 20% of the total living area is planned for children’s rooms and bathrooms, but no children ever arrive. Not because it didn’t work (which is bad enough), but because they don’t want any.
I would incorporate this situation into the planning. Meaning: no children’s rooms to start with, but the possibility to create a children’s area with a few modifications if it becomes necessary. If not, as a couple maybe you allow yourselves a spare bedroom (for snoring, illness, etc.) and otherwise a spacious living area that can include a library, a music room, or anything else.
A good architect can offer concepts for this.
A residential palace of this size for two people should definitely include a straight, representative staircase, an open space or gallery (ideal for a library unit), a well-planned central kitchen, a huge table (there is plenty of space and it seems the owners like to have many guests). Possibly also a second, somewhat separate living area so one can retreat. This could be where a TV is placed, in case they ever want one.
In the private area, a wellness bathroom with all the fancy features. Before spending money on children’s rooms and bathrooms that might never be used, I’d rather invest there. I remember reading something about a sauna house by a lake? That’s really amazing! If you can plan it large enough with a relaxation room and shower, basically an outdoor wellness area, that’s a dream. Otherwise, include a sauna in the wellness bath because it doesn’t work when the sauna is outside, and you then have to walk back inside for showering and resting.
A utility room for laundry on the upper floor near the private area.
Oh yes: the last drafts were without a basement. Despite the large living area, I would massively miss storage space, and I don’t think I saw a freezer room.
Freezer! That reminds me: I read something about having the freezer chest in the barn. HELP!!!
You’re building a 300sqm (3,230 sqft) house for two people, cooking for 20 to 50 people, and if you need something from the freezer in the middle of the cooking spree, you have to run out to the barn? Seriously???
With this amount of space, there absolutely should be a pantry, at least large enough to house the freezer, and I bet you will love it. If you cook so extensively, you should definitely have an appropriate “back of house” concept in the kitchen, especially when you have the space. You can also store ready-made meals temporarily, etc. VERY practical, I swear.
Overall, I get the impression that you have your wishes, but they’re all still floating around individually in your head. There is no overall concept or reality check. What makes sense, what is important, what do I sacrifice for what, what would I give up?
This already shows in the plan with two children’s rooms and a bathroom, although it is not even certain that you want children. Something doesn’t add up there.
You want a large kitchen with professional-level equipment, but the freezer is in a barn outside. Have you ever cooked in a commercial kitchen? The freezer and fridge should be as close as possible, not a long walk away. And there is a reason for that…
And then: you’ve probably had parties at home before? Where do they end? Exactly, in the kitchen. So, especially if you like having guests, it makes sense to put the kitchen and dining area next to each other and not plan a (quiet) living area in between. That is just completely without concept. And that’s what I stumble on with all your drafts: lack of concept, and it’s defended passionately.
Also in this category: you plan meals for up to 50 people, but how is that going to work with the entrance area? Will you give specific arrival times so that at most four guests come at once? There’s simply no more space. Anyone who likes many guests has to consider that already in the entrance area planning. A room concept that fits maybe four people simply isn’t enough.
And so on and so forth. Overall, it’s still very unrefined, and moving rooms around won’t help.
@haydee
Sorry, I didn’t see your message earlier, so this is a late reply. During our tour, we visited both the model home park and houses built by the contractor to look at their options. Due to a rather tiring drive with heavy traffic, we probably went through everything faster than we initially planned.
The concept from HUF strongly reminded us of DaVinci – with lots of glass, it creates very bright rooms. The layout is clearly more focused on a two-person household. However, our builder probably won’t offer it, and similar to DaVinci, the amount of glass used inside is definitely too much for us. The style and modern design don’t quite fit with our preferences. We thought a lot about how the master bedroom and bathroom work together, but after everything we saw over the weekend, we prefer our own solution with the walk-in closet as a separate connecting room. Thanks for the valuable tip! I think it helped us later when we “straightened out” our floor plan with the architect. Currently, we have a draft that my partner is redrawing, and I’ll post it then.
Sorry, I didn’t see your message earlier, so this is a late reply. During our tour, we visited both the model home park and houses built by the contractor to look at their options. Due to a rather tiring drive with heavy traffic, we probably went through everything faster than we initially planned.
The concept from HUF strongly reminded us of DaVinci – with lots of glass, it creates very bright rooms. The layout is clearly more focused on a two-person household. However, our builder probably won’t offer it, and similar to DaVinci, the amount of glass used inside is definitely too much for us. The style and modern design don’t quite fit with our preferences. We thought a lot about how the master bedroom and bathroom work together, but after everything we saw over the weekend, we prefer our own solution with the walk-in closet as a separate connecting room. Thanks for the valuable tip! I think it helped us later when we “straightened out” our floor plan with the architect. Currently, we have a draft that my partner is redrawing, and I’ll post it then.
Then it was worth it after all. Standard single-family houses up to 200 square meters (2,150 square feet) won’t help you. You’re planning a house on a whole different level.
Okay, I was already wondering about the change from a log house to a timber frame with a lot of glass.
Okay, I was already wondering about the change from a log house to a timber frame with a lot of glass.
haydee schrieb:
Ok, I was already wondering about the change from a log house to a timber frame with lots of glass.I think I mentioned this somewhere along the way: Having a wooden house was important to us. When you start with round logs, it quickly leads to a log house, which is much easier to maintain. Dusting off round logs is no fun—we learned that firsthand.
Our first design featured a fully glazed front, which was hardly affordable. A timber frame house with nearly all the panels glazed doesn’t work either; that’s too much. After the detour through the log house, where we couldn’t even have triangular glazing in the gables, we ended up with basically the best of both worlds: glazing on the south side, windows on the north, and on the other sides it looks like a log house, but it’s a bit of a trick. Solid wood is only used on some interior walls. This way, we get what we wanted: lots of wood and plenty of glass on one side.
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