ᐅ Preliminary design from the draftsperson for our single-family house
Created on: 12 Feb 2018 10:08
J
Julia.86
Hello everyone,
our house construction is finally starting to get serious.
Provided the seller of the plot does not back out at short notice, we have an appointment with the notary in March to draw up the purchase contract.
A few weeks ago, we accepted an offer from a general contractor to visit the plot and the development plan together to see if our desired house could be built there. A draftsman reviewed everything with us, listened to and noted our wishes and ideas during a two-hour meeting.
Last week, we met at the office to review the first draft. Since then, we have decided to provide planners (we want to meet with 2-3 more companies to find the right one) with a list of our wishes and ideas for further discussions. Unfortunately, not everything that is really important to us was considered, and too much attention was given to things that are just “nice-to-have.” >.<
The planner recommended that we carefully think through his draft at home to see what we like and what does not work for us.
Before giving him our feedback, I would like to hear your opinions on this draft. Perhaps some of you with building experience will notice something we are unaware of, or you might challenge our thoughts, which would also be very helpful.
Here is the completed questionnaire first:
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 743m2 (8000 sq ft), 20m x 37m (66 ft x 121 ft)
Slope: yes, sloping downward to the rear, the draftsman estimates the height difference at about 3m (if we own the plot, we were advised to commission a soil report with leveling to allow the best possible house design. We will do that)
Site coverage ratio: 0.3
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: see attachment
Setbacks: 3m (10 ft) from neighbors, 7m (23 ft) to the street
Number of parking spaces: not specified; 2-3 desired
Number of storeys: 2 full storeys allowed
Roof type: only pitched roofs
Architectural style: open style
Maximum heights/limits: with downward slope development, eaves height max. 4.50m (15 ft) above finished floor level
Additional requirements: cistern mandatory with 50 liters (13 gallons) storage volume per m2 of sealed surface area
Homeowners’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: solid construction house, rectangular shape, no bay windows etc., gable roof
Basement, storeys: 1.5 storeys + basement, possibly with a small granny flat/apartment in the basement; ground floor and upper floor about 150m2 (1615 sq ft) total
Number of occupants, ages: 2 adults (31 + 31), planning 1-2 children
Space requirements for ground floor and upper floor:
Office: family use or home office?: both; to be integrated on the ground floor (also as a sleeping option if climbing stairs becomes difficult due to illness. I have some experience with this as an occupational therapist)
Guest sleepers per year: 1-2
Open or enclosed architecture: rather enclosed
Conservative or modern design: rather conservative?
Open kitchen, kitchen island: no, closed kitchen, if possible with a breakfast nook
Number of dining seats: daily use 2-4
Fireplace: chimney duct preferred to be included
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double garage preferred; otherwise, a single garage; my partner would like a door from the garage into the house
Utility garden, greenhouse: maybe a small utility garden for herbs etc.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why some things are wanted or not:
Shower/toilet on the ground floor (similar reasoning as guest room, and a second shower is practical if children are around);
A small pantry or storage room near the kitchen would be nice;
Walk-in closet (more like a dressing room) in the master bedroom is nice-to-have but not essential;
Because of the slope, we considered planning a small apartment/granny flat in the basement (e.g., in case the single mother-in-law cannot stay in her old house due to health reasons; she actually does not want to leave; or later for the child). Very important is a separate external entrance preferably without stairs (for wheelchair/walker use; and if rented out, so the tenants don’t have to share the stairwell).
House design
Who created the design:
- Planner from a construction company
What do you like most? Why?:
We really like the layout of the upper floor, especially that the children’s rooms are the same size; on the ground floor, we prefer the location of the kitchen and guest room compared to our own sketch (which I will also attach).
What do you dislike? Why?
Basement: That we hardly have usable basement, as the granny flat occupies the whole floor (except for the technical room); in the apartment’s living room, furniture placement is very difficult due to many doors; bathtub has to go, shower would be hard to access in this layout;
Ground floor: The large utility room (unfortunately necessary since no basement room is available, and actually a good solution for the door into the house); we would prefer an open kitchen, but it is probably not feasible with this floor plan?
For us, the biggest problem is the stairwell. On the one hand, I am not sure if the cloakroom will work for a family with children later. On the other hand, the idea of possibly having to share the stairwell with strangers (e.g., stumbling downstairs half asleep in the morning and meeting visitors to the granny flat?) is terrible for me - definitely not an option!
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: 391,000€ (KfW 55 standard, air-to-water heat pump, excluding groundwork estimated at 18,000€, painting, garage)
Personal budget limit for the house: approx. 300,000€
Preferred heating technology: geothermal (our building area requires case-by-case decision), otherwise air-to-water heat pump
If you had to give up on some details or extras
- You could do without: some square meters, especially the upper floor seems quite generous; door from garage into house is not a must, same as pantry; fireplace; granny flat
- You cannot do without: closed kitchen, very reluctant to give up the ground floor office/guest room, separate entrance for granny flat
Why is the design as it is now?
Draft by the draftsman
Which wishes were implemented by the architect: door from garage into house, closed kitchen, walk-in closet, granny flat in basement (though different than expected)
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Do you see any other critical points? Are we worrying about problems that aren’t really problems?
I fear we may want too much for our budget, where do you see potential savings?
I hope I haven’t forgotten any important points; feel free to ask.
Thanks in advance for reading this long post. I look forward to constructive criticism and suggestions of any kind.
PS: The slope is not as steep as it looks in the exterior views; the draftsman’s software couldn’t display it differently.
our house construction is finally starting to get serious.
Provided the seller of the plot does not back out at short notice, we have an appointment with the notary in March to draw up the purchase contract.
A few weeks ago, we accepted an offer from a general contractor to visit the plot and the development plan together to see if our desired house could be built there. A draftsman reviewed everything with us, listened to and noted our wishes and ideas during a two-hour meeting.
Last week, we met at the office to review the first draft. Since then, we have decided to provide planners (we want to meet with 2-3 more companies to find the right one) with a list of our wishes and ideas for further discussions. Unfortunately, not everything that is really important to us was considered, and too much attention was given to things that are just “nice-to-have.” >.<
The planner recommended that we carefully think through his draft at home to see what we like and what does not work for us.
Before giving him our feedback, I would like to hear your opinions on this draft. Perhaps some of you with building experience will notice something we are unaware of, or you might challenge our thoughts, which would also be very helpful.
Here is the completed questionnaire first:
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 743m2 (8000 sq ft), 20m x 37m (66 ft x 121 ft)
Slope: yes, sloping downward to the rear, the draftsman estimates the height difference at about 3m (if we own the plot, we were advised to commission a soil report with leveling to allow the best possible house design. We will do that)
Site coverage ratio: 0.3
Floor area ratio: 0.6
Building envelope, building line, and boundaries: see attachment
Setbacks: 3m (10 ft) from neighbors, 7m (23 ft) to the street
Number of parking spaces: not specified; 2-3 desired
Number of storeys: 2 full storeys allowed
Roof type: only pitched roofs
Architectural style: open style
Maximum heights/limits: with downward slope development, eaves height max. 4.50m (15 ft) above finished floor level
Additional requirements: cistern mandatory with 50 liters (13 gallons) storage volume per m2 of sealed surface area
Homeowners’ requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: solid construction house, rectangular shape, no bay windows etc., gable roof
Basement, storeys: 1.5 storeys + basement, possibly with a small granny flat/apartment in the basement; ground floor and upper floor about 150m2 (1615 sq ft) total
Number of occupants, ages: 2 adults (31 + 31), planning 1-2 children
Space requirements for ground floor and upper floor:
Office: family use or home office?: both; to be integrated on the ground floor (also as a sleeping option if climbing stairs becomes difficult due to illness. I have some experience with this as an occupational therapist)
Guest sleepers per year: 1-2
Open or enclosed architecture: rather enclosed
Conservative or modern design: rather conservative?
Open kitchen, kitchen island: no, closed kitchen, if possible with a breakfast nook
Number of dining seats: daily use 2-4
Fireplace: chimney duct preferred to be included
Music/stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: double garage preferred; otherwise, a single garage; my partner would like a door from the garage into the house
Utility garden, greenhouse: maybe a small utility garden for herbs etc.
Other wishes/special features/daily routine, also reasons why some things are wanted or not:
Shower/toilet on the ground floor (similar reasoning as guest room, and a second shower is practical if children are around);
A small pantry or storage room near the kitchen would be nice;
Walk-in closet (more like a dressing room) in the master bedroom is nice-to-have but not essential;
Because of the slope, we considered planning a small apartment/granny flat in the basement (e.g., in case the single mother-in-law cannot stay in her old house due to health reasons; she actually does not want to leave; or later for the child). Very important is a separate external entrance preferably without stairs (for wheelchair/walker use; and if rented out, so the tenants don’t have to share the stairwell).
House design
Who created the design:
- Planner from a construction company
What do you like most? Why?:
We really like the layout of the upper floor, especially that the children’s rooms are the same size; on the ground floor, we prefer the location of the kitchen and guest room compared to our own sketch (which I will also attach).
What do you dislike? Why?
Basement: That we hardly have usable basement, as the granny flat occupies the whole floor (except for the technical room); in the apartment’s living room, furniture placement is very difficult due to many doors; bathtub has to go, shower would be hard to access in this layout;
Ground floor: The large utility room (unfortunately necessary since no basement room is available, and actually a good solution for the door into the house); we would prefer an open kitchen, but it is probably not feasible with this floor plan?
For us, the biggest problem is the stairwell. On the one hand, I am not sure if the cloakroom will work for a family with children later. On the other hand, the idea of possibly having to share the stairwell with strangers (e.g., stumbling downstairs half asleep in the morning and meeting visitors to the granny flat?) is terrible for me - definitely not an option!
Cost estimate according to architect/planner: 391,000€ (KfW 55 standard, air-to-water heat pump, excluding groundwork estimated at 18,000€, painting, garage)
Personal budget limit for the house: approx. 300,000€
Preferred heating technology: geothermal (our building area requires case-by-case decision), otherwise air-to-water heat pump
If you had to give up on some details or extras
- You could do without: some square meters, especially the upper floor seems quite generous; door from garage into house is not a must, same as pantry; fireplace; granny flat
- You cannot do without: closed kitchen, very reluctant to give up the ground floor office/guest room, separate entrance for granny flat
Why is the design as it is now?
Draft by the draftsman
Which wishes were implemented by the architect: door from garage into house, closed kitchen, walk-in closet, granny flat in basement (though different than expected)
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Do you see any other critical points? Are we worrying about problems that aren’t really problems?
I fear we may want too much for our budget, where do you see potential savings?
I hope I haven’t forgotten any important points; feel free to ask.
Thanks in advance for reading this long post. I look forward to constructive criticism and suggestions of any kind.
PS: The slope is not as steep as it looks in the exterior views; the draftsman’s software couldn’t display it differently.
I love sloped lots because they allow for some really clever house designs. Of course, it shouldn’t be taken to extremes, as managing the property can become difficult, but don’t let that discourage you. In my opinion, the orientation of the lot is the most challenging part of the whole project, since the “nice” side usually features the main entrance while the basement is completely underground on that side. On the other hand, you have the advantage of stepping out at ground level from the lower floor and enjoying an unobstructed view of your property and hopefully the not-too-developed valley scenery.
The price of nearly 400,000 euros doesn’t seem too excessive at first glance, especially considering the design offers around 250m² (2,690 sq ft) of living space. It’s not exactly a traditional basement.
The price of nearly 400,000 euros doesn’t seem too excessive at first glance, especially considering the design offers around 250m² (2,690 sq ft) of living space. It’s not exactly a traditional basement.
I would cancel the idea of a granny flat. Your mother-in-law will probably live in her house as long as she can, and then it won’t be feasible for you either – the care effort is too high.
Living spaces belong next to the garden, especially with small children. Rain, snow, or mud are no reason not to go outside. This way, you can keep an eye on them and stay dry.
A split-level design might be an option for you. You would need to consult an architect for that.
Living spaces belong next to the garden, especially with small children. Rain, snow, or mud are no reason not to go outside. This way, you can keep an eye on them and stay dry.
A split-level design might be an option for you. You would need to consult an architect for that.
I don’t like the draftsperson’s house at all. Not necessarily on its own, but because it feels very inconsistent: the ground floor looks like a small flat, while the attic resembles the attic of a detached house. Overall, it seems to have been developed from a standard design intended for a flat plot. What bothers me most, however, is how little this design overlaps with your own ideas for the floor plan. From my point of view, the draftsperson’s house is equally suited to a different plot and different people.
I can understand wanting to use the half-basement exposed by the slope, but not with a granny flat. In my opinion, the family living room belongs on the garden side—and at garden level! This reminds me of the thread by SupaCriz https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erster-Entwurf-Grundriss-efh-ca-200qm-bitte-um-Feedback.18830/page-3 (post #15)
Granny flats for (in-law) parents are usually misguided anyway, because things rarely turn out the way you expect: you might plan for your mother to become frail first, but it’s often the father who becomes dependent—or vice versa. Sometimes it helps to change your perspective: imagine yourself in the granny flat, widowed, with one of your children and their family living above you. Does the thought warm you up like central heating, or would you prefer a different house?
If the slope is less steep, then either the entrance side or the garden side doesn’t fit the terrain. Would you basically have to imagine a light well in front of the granny flat?
The more a slope is neither fish nor fowl—that is, the elevation difference over the building depth is neither less than half a meter (about 1.5 feet) nor close to a full storey height—the more you need floor plans that follow the terrain internally.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I can understand wanting to use the half-basement exposed by the slope, but not with a granny flat. In my opinion, the family living room belongs on the garden side—and at garden level! This reminds me of the thread by SupaCriz https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erster-Entwurf-Grundriss-efh-ca-200qm-bitte-um-Feedback.18830/page-3 (post #15)
haydee schrieb:
Maybe a split-level design would work for you. You’ll need an architect for that.
Granny flats for (in-law) parents are usually misguided anyway, because things rarely turn out the way you expect: you might plan for your mother to become frail first, but it’s often the father who becomes dependent—or vice versa. Sometimes it helps to change your perspective: imagine yourself in the granny flat, widowed, with one of your children and their family living above you. Does the thought warm you up like central heating, or would you prefer a different house?
Julia.86 schrieb:
PS: By the way, the slope is not as steep as it looks in the exterior views; the draftsperson couldn’t represent it any other way with his software.
If the slope is less steep, then either the entrance side or the garden side doesn’t fit the terrain. Would you basically have to imagine a light well in front of the granny flat?
The more a slope is neither fish nor fowl—that is, the elevation difference over the building depth is neither less than half a meter (about 1.5 feet) nor close to a full storey height—the more you need floor plans that follow the terrain internally.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
I don’t like the draftsperson’s house at all. Looking at it on its own, it seems very inconsistent: the ground floor feels like a small apartment, while the attic seems like the attic of a single-family home, and overall it appears to have been developed from a standard design intended for a flat plot. What bothers me most, however, is the very limited overlap between this design and your own floor plan ideas, to put it mildly. From my perspective, the draftsperson’s house is therefore equally a house for a different plot and different people.
I can understand the desire to live in the partially exposed basement created by the sloped site. However, not with a granny flat or accessory apartment. In my opinion, the family living room should be on the garden side—and at garden level! I have a déjà vu with SupaCriz’s thread https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/erster-Entwurf-Grundriss-efh-ca-200qm-bitte-um-Feedback.18830/page-3 (post #15).
Using granny flats or in-law apartments for (parents-in-law) is usually the wrong approach, because first, things turn out differently, and second, different than you expect: you anticipate your mother becoming frail first, but then it’s actually her father, or vice versa. Sometimes a change of perspective helps: imagine yourself as the occupant of the granny flat, widowed, with one of your children and their family living above you. Does the thought of the central heating make you feel warm and comfortable, or would you rather move to a different house now?
If the slope of the land is less steep, either the entrance side or the garden side will not fit well with the terrain. Should you basically consider adding a light well in front of the granny flat? The more a sloped site is neither fish nor fowl—that is, the height difference in relation to the depth of the house is neither less than half a meter nor close to a full storey—the more floor plans that follow the terrain’s shape are needed. Are there already elevation data available for the plot, or what happens to the area below the property? Actually, 3m (10 feet) over 10m (33 feet) corresponds exactly to one storey height. However, the terrace would then need to be filled in again. Also, an estimated height difference of approximately 3m (10 feet) is not really precise. Does the rest of the site continue with the same slope? That would be more than 15m (50 feet) over the entire length.Whoops, I missed the 300,000 limit on my phone today.
So, it will be simpler: remove the granny flat. Plan for 2 floors: ground floor and basement. Or whatever you prefer to call the floors. One floor for the children and a long-term guest, the other with a common room and parents’ area. Many large windows with sills on the north side, terrace on the west side.
Garage on the east side, with stairs going down to the basement behind it.
However, depending on the budget, you might have to switch to a carport.
So, it will be simpler: remove the granny flat. Plan for 2 floors: ground floor and basement. Or whatever you prefer to call the floors. One floor for the children and a long-term guest, the other with a common room and parents’ area. Many large windows with sills on the north side, terrace on the west side.
Garage on the east side, with stairs going down to the basement behind it.
However, depending on the budget, you might have to switch to a carport.
Phew, I think we really need to try to clear our minds and move away from the idea of a “basement (living) floor, with a regular single-family house on top.”
At first, I found the suggestions of having bedrooms or living spaces in the “basement” a bit strange. Now, I’m starting to find it quite appealing. Some new ideas are buzzing around in my head, though unfortunately with many new questions too. ;-D
Especially the idea of having the master bedroom on the same level as the “open living area” caught my attention, since the study/office wouldn’t have to serve as an “emergency bedroom” anymore. We could have figured that out ourselves... Good thing you’re all here!
Split-level wouldn’t really be an option for us though. We know some people with one, and it feels too open and noisy/thin-walled for my taste. They wouldn’t choose it again themselves either.
Now I just need to get my partner onboard with the “fresh start” idea. He’s still attached to our “old” plan but luckily, when it comes to finances, he’s the more reasonable/strict one and won’t insist on the separate granny flat “at any cost.”
We will definitely schedule more meetings even before the notarization, since the planning and finding the right planner is taking more time than we expected, and we’re just too curious to see what others would do with our (reconsidered) ideas. This time definitely more directly with architects.
@11ant: Regarding the slope: the estimated height difference is about 3 meters (10 feet) over the entire depth of the plot (37 meters (121 feet)), which according to my partner (who’s a geographer) could work. I can’t judge, I just don’t have the eye for it...
As soon as the plot belongs to us, we will commission a soil report and leveling survey to know for sure.
The phrase “not so steep” was originally related to a picture showing the exterior, which I didn’t attach finally because the limit of 10 pictures was already reached. I missed that, so I’m attaching it here now. It refers to the steep drop of the green area behind the terrace.
At first, I found the suggestions of having bedrooms or living spaces in the “basement” a bit strange. Now, I’m starting to find it quite appealing. Some new ideas are buzzing around in my head, though unfortunately with many new questions too. ;-D
Especially the idea of having the master bedroom on the same level as the “open living area” caught my attention, since the study/office wouldn’t have to serve as an “emergency bedroom” anymore. We could have figured that out ourselves... Good thing you’re all here!
Split-level wouldn’t really be an option for us though. We know some people with one, and it feels too open and noisy/thin-walled for my taste. They wouldn’t choose it again themselves either.
Now I just need to get my partner onboard with the “fresh start” idea. He’s still attached to our “old” plan but luckily, when it comes to finances, he’s the more reasonable/strict one and won’t insist on the separate granny flat “at any cost.”
We will definitely schedule more meetings even before the notarization, since the planning and finding the right planner is taking more time than we expected, and we’re just too curious to see what others would do with our (reconsidered) ideas. This time definitely more directly with architects.
@11ant: Regarding the slope: the estimated height difference is about 3 meters (10 feet) over the entire depth of the plot (37 meters (121 feet)), which according to my partner (who’s a geographer) could work. I can’t judge, I just don’t have the eye for it...
As soon as the plot belongs to us, we will commission a soil report and leveling survey to know for sure.
The phrase “not so steep” was originally related to a picture showing the exterior, which I didn’t attach finally because the limit of 10 pictures was already reached. I missed that, so I’m attaching it here now. It refers to the steep drop of the green area behind the terrace.
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