ᐅ Floor plan, house layout EFW 150 m², basement with granny flat – feedback welcomed
Created on: 29 Dec 2024 00:08
N
njAiiii
Hello dear forum,
we have been quietly following along for some time, knowing that we will eventually build our own home. Thanks in advance to everyone who regularly posts here and shares their knowledge. This is very helpful for laypeople like us. We already appreciate you taking the time to focus on our project and critically review it. The moment is getting closer. The plot is secured. It is located near a protected landscape area with a gentle slope. The soil report indicates occasional hydrostatic pressure.
How will we proceed?
What do we want to build?
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 650m2 (7000 sq ft approx.)
Slope: Yes, gentle (scale 1:250, see elevation in attachment; 1m (3.3 ft) over approx. 10x11m)
Floor area ratio (FAR): No formal development plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible after approval by building authority
Building coverage ratio: No formal plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible
Building setback lines and boundaries:
- 5m (16 ft) from the street
- 3m (10 ft) from neighboring properties
Edge building: On both sides and opposite along the street
Number of parking spaces: Probably 3 required (we could move the house back so parking is directly in front)
Number of floors:
- Technically 2 floors,
- But visually aligned with surrounding buildings, so a 1.5-story appearance desired
Roof type: Gable roof with 30-40cm (12-16 inches) overhang
Style: Modern
Orientation: Southeast, but surrounded by many mature historic trees from east to west along the plot boundary
Maximum heights/restrictions: Neighboring buildings, street alignment
Additional requirements: For flat roof, 1m (3.3 ft) setback from street and sides
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style: Modern
Roof pitch:
- Gable roof between 25-33°
- Originally flat roof to the left neighbor, now gable roof preferred for budget, maintenance, and required setbacks
Building type: Single-family house with separate apartment
Basement: Yes
Stories: "1.5"
Knee wall height: 1.90m (6.2 ft) (no official requirement); we want to minimize sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: 4 (2 adults age 40, 2 children aged 4 and 1) + 1 family member for the separate apartment
Space requirements for ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
- Originally 141m2 (1519 sq ft) net usable area without circulation space
GF:
- Open living/dining area with pantry
- Office (possibly bedroom later in life)
- Shower bathroom
- Entrance hall
UF:
- 2 children’s rooms from 13m2 (140 sq ft) each
- Bedroom as small as possible + walk-in closet with standard wardrobes
- Bathroom with T-layout, shower, tub, toilet
- Second workspace
Office: Family use or home office?
- Home office twice a week, about 3-4 days out of 5 at home
Visitors per year: One overnight guest per quarter
Open or closed architecture: Open
Conservative or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen with island: Yes
Number of dining seats: 4-6, extendable up to 10 (2m (6.5 ft) table extendable to 3m (10 ft))
Fireplace: No
Music/sound system wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage/Carport: Prefabricated garage 3x7m (10x23 ft), possibly 3x9m (10x30 ft)
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes (vegetables, fruit, cistern)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are excluded:
House Design
Designer:
What do you particularly like and why?
What do you dislike and why?
Price estimate by architect/planner: $3,300 - $3,500 per m2 (approx. $307 - $325 per sq ft), total approx. $700,000 - $800,000 plus additional costs
Personal maximum budget including fittings: $750,000 plus additional construction costs
Preferred heating technology: sustainable + underfloor heating (comfort); geothermal possible but based on current research not cost-effective
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes?
-cannot give up:
-could give up: probably everything else
Why does the design look like it does now? For example:
Standard plan from designer? No; from architect
- We shared all our ideas and preferences with the architect and discussed them beforehand
- This is the second iteration; earlier option had flat roof dormer with southwest children’s room, which we discarded; roof pitch probably 25° now
Which wishes did the architect implement?
What do you think about it, especially focusing on current pain points:
Due to the maximum number of attachments allowed, we couldn’t add an aerial photo of the tree cover. There are three large deciduous trees directly to the southeast and on the southwest side about two chestnut trees and around 15 pines from the 1950s. We have no worries about summer heat protection 😉 – on the contrary: enlarging the house footprint would cost us garden and especially daylight.
Feel free to ask any questions.
We look forward to your feedback and thank you in advance.
we have been quietly following along for some time, knowing that we will eventually build our own home. Thanks in advance to everyone who regularly posts here and shares their knowledge. This is very helpful for laypeople like us. We already appreciate you taking the time to focus on our project and critically review it. The moment is getting closer. The plot is secured. It is located near a protected landscape area with a gentle slope. The soil report indicates occasional hydrostatic pressure.
How will we proceed?
- Purchase plot, conduct soil survey
- Position and design house on plot with architect (phases 1-3)
- Invitation to bid for general contractor and individual trades for interior work, followed by comparison
- Construction with expert supervision
What do we want to build?
- Single-family house with separate apartment (for family and mainly for tax reasons, especially for the various depreciation options, therefore also with QNG [quality seal for sustainable building])
- Why basement? To maximize garden space, add storage area, and supposedly take advantage of the slope
Development Plan/Restrictions
Plot size: 650m2 (7000 sq ft approx.)
Slope: Yes, gentle (scale 1:250, see elevation in attachment; 1m (3.3 ft) over approx. 10x11m)
Floor area ratio (FAR): No formal development plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible after approval by building authority
Building coverage ratio: No formal plan, approx. 220m2 (2368 sq ft) floor area possible
Building setback lines and boundaries:
- 5m (16 ft) from the street
- 3m (10 ft) from neighboring properties
Edge building: On both sides and opposite along the street
Number of parking spaces: Probably 3 required (we could move the house back so parking is directly in front)
Number of floors:
- Technically 2 floors,
- But visually aligned with surrounding buildings, so a 1.5-story appearance desired
Roof type: Gable roof with 30-40cm (12-16 inches) overhang
Style: Modern
Orientation: Southeast, but surrounded by many mature historic trees from east to west along the plot boundary
Maximum heights/restrictions: Neighboring buildings, street alignment
Additional requirements: For flat roof, 1m (3.3 ft) setback from street and sides
Homeowners’ Requirements
Style: Modern
Roof pitch:
- Gable roof between 25-33°
- Originally flat roof to the left neighbor, now gable roof preferred for budget, maintenance, and required setbacks
Building type: Single-family house with separate apartment
Basement: Yes
Stories: "1.5"
Knee wall height: 1.90m (6.2 ft) (no official requirement); we want to minimize sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: 4 (2 adults age 40, 2 children aged 4 and 1) + 1 family member for the separate apartment
Space requirements for ground floor (GF) and upper floor (UF):
- Originally 141m2 (1519 sq ft) net usable area without circulation space
GF:
- Open living/dining area with pantry
- Office (possibly bedroom later in life)
- Shower bathroom
- Entrance hall
UF:
- 2 children’s rooms from 13m2 (140 sq ft) each
- Bedroom as small as possible + walk-in closet with standard wardrobes
- Bathroom with T-layout, shower, tub, toilet
- Second workspace
Office: Family use or home office?
- Home office twice a week, about 3-4 days out of 5 at home
Visitors per year: One overnight guest per quarter
Open or closed architecture: Open
Conservative or modern construction: Modern
Open kitchen with island: Yes
Number of dining seats: 4-6, extendable up to 10 (2m (6.5 ft) table extendable to 3m (10 ft))
Fireplace: No
Music/sound system wall: No
Balcony, roof terrace: No
Garage/Carport: Prefabricated garage 3x7m (10x23 ft), possibly 3x9m (10x30 ft)
Utility garden, greenhouse: Yes (vegetables, fruit, cistern)
Additional wishes / special features / daily routine, including reasons why some options are excluded:
- We are an early riser (Larch + Owl), so with two kids (maybe 3 someday), a second shower bathroom is essential
- Open living/dining area as the heart of the home: We cook a lot and enjoy it; this is the social center
- Standard sizes where possible (wardrobe widths, doors, windows, house shape, etc.)
- If reasonable, include basement
- Covered walkway from house entrance to garage (still discussing presentation; garage likely needs attic height >3m (10 ft), which may require an easement on the boundary)
- We will very likely install a “glass awning” on the terrace afterwards
- Photovoltaic system
- Air-to-water heat pump
- Ventilation system
- Open living-dining area (L-shaped)
- Light-filled rooms
- Maximum knee wall height
- Maximized ceiling height on GF/UF
- Living/dining area with floor-to-ceiling windows
- Daylight bathrooms
- Dining table 2m (6.5 ft) long (extendable to 3m (10 ft))
- Modern look with individual accents
- Low roof pitch
- Interior doors at least 1m (3.3 ft) wide
- Shower bathroom on the ground floor
- Walk-in closet
- Pantry also as storage room
- Staircase not directly at entrance door (airlock/dirty corridor)
- Office potentially usable as bedroom
- Kitchen island at least 2m (6.5 ft) wide
- Flat roof dormer and/or bay window
- Second workspace (bedroom, landing, or similar)
- Bathroom with T-layout
- Daylight in landing
- Basement apartment
- Separate entrance to basement apartment
- Lift-and-slide door
- Maximize southwest garden area
- Partially covered terrace
- View axis from hallway to garden
- Daylight in walk-in closet
- External access to basement
- Laundry chute
- Window seat
- Basic smart home features
House Design
Designer:
- Architect, phases 1-3
What do you particularly like and why?
- The ground floor overall; many wishes fulfilled, some highlights
- Bedroom and walk-in closet; probably adding a door in between later
- Landing staircase, view axis, kitchen windows, entrance hall
What do you dislike and why?
- GF office faces southwest instead of east or southeast
- GF living room: fixed glazing towards southwest too small
- GF living room: lift-and-slide door too large, couch doesn’t fit well
- GF living room: considering glazing the entire wall
- GF corridor quite long
- UF sizes depend on GF; rooms (except bedroom and closet) are rather large
- UF bedroom faces southwest instead of north
- UF considering all windows floor-to-ceiling except stair and landing for light and appearance
- Garage not directly attached to house due to access to separate apartment
- Separate apartment quite complex
- Initially we drafted an "L-shaped" house similar to post here, but could not solve circulation areas properly; currently seeing them as a “necessary evil.”
Price estimate by architect/planner: $3,300 - $3,500 per m2 (approx. $307 - $325 per sq ft), total approx. $700,000 - $800,000 plus additional costs
Personal maximum budget including fittings: $750,000 plus additional construction costs
Preferred heating technology: sustainable + underfloor heating (comfort); geothermal possible but based on current research not cost-effective
If you had to give up something, which features/finishes?
-cannot give up:
- Separate apartment (for family and tax benefits)
- Office (need a dedicated setup at least for one person; also for guests and as retreat)
- Two children’s rooms
-could give up: probably everything else
Why does the design look like it does now? For example:
Standard plan from designer? No; from architect
- We shared all our ideas and preferences with the architect and discussed them beforehand
- This is the second iteration; earlier option had flat roof dormer with southwest children’s room, which we discarded; roof pitch probably 25° now
Which wishes did the architect implement?
- Most of them, but not all possible
What do you think about it, especially focusing on current pain points:
- Actually, our space requirements are smaller, but we cannot fit that on the ground floor to align with upstairs (difference about 10-15 m2 (110-160 sq ft)); kids’ rooms and circulation spaces including landing could be smaller
- Window area not yet optimal in living/dining, office, and large upstairs living area; considering 1.10m (3.6 ft) fixed glazing and 2.50m (8.2 ft) lift-and-slide door
- House feels somewhat "buried"; considering raising overall or at least GF + UF by 40-80cm (16-32 inches) above ground level
- The whole topic of “house/garage connection,” earthworks, and plot landscaping is very complex and time-consuming
- No external blinds (raffstores) possible on landing due to knee wall and roof
- Separate “dirty corridor” and staircase; could be a minor disadvantage for aging, might make separate UF rental impossible in future
Due to the maximum number of attachments allowed, we couldn’t add an aerial photo of the tree cover. There are three large deciduous trees directly to the southeast and on the southwest side about two chestnut trees and around 15 pines from the 1950s. We have no worries about summer heat protection 😉 – on the contrary: enlarging the house footprint would cost us garden and especially daylight.
Feel free to ask any questions.
We look forward to your feedback and thank you in advance.
njAiiii schrieb:
Perhaps we are fixating from the start on the idea that the granny flat should be located in the basement. I really don’t understand why you would give this simpler design—which also seems to offer tax advantages—the status of an "idea" and perhaps even insist on it.
In my opinion, for someone you value and also benefit from, you wouldn’t plan a 6 square meter (65 square feet) bedroom, especially one tucked away in the leftover basement space; not even for someone you don’t like. This tiny sleeping space alone indicates that this occupant is significantly undervalued, especially since your own bedrooms, bathrooms, and so on are quite generously sized.
As has been pointed out repeatedly by others, a basement is still just a basement, no matter how you try to put a positive spin on it. If it really isn’t feasible from a planning perspective—I find that hard to imagine—then you have chosen the wrong plot of land for this kind of living arrangement, which, regardless of age, is to some extent a shared lifestyle.
For me personally, a house only becomes beautiful and special when it is not just a stylish building, but a pleasant and safe place for everyone. When it comes to older, generally more vulnerable people, I believe the younger household members have an even greater responsibility to ensure this.
It really seems to me that the priorities here lie more with the tax benefits; for me, tax or subsidy considerations would come last—only after interpersonal needs have been fully taken into account for everyone.
That said, I am not trying to attack you, but wanted to offer a different perspective before this decision. Of course, you can decide on your own, and that’s none of my business. If the fundamental basis isn’t right, there’s no point in debating details. I suspect I’m not the right person to discuss this with, so I’ll step out of your thread. I still hope you all find a good solution, which I wish you.
ypg schrieb:
Who or what do you mean? Now one parent is already alone. The second parent comes 10 years later. Simply put, after the grandmother, eventually one single parent will follow.
ypg schrieb:
Why do you think the living room is better placed in the southwest? Do you need the most light in the sofa corner? Do you need to be close to the terrace for watching TV? TV + terrace: definitely no. It’s about the lighting conditions.
ypg schrieb:
Actually, you need the most daylight where you spend time during the day. Exactly, that’s why we locate the kitchen in the east.
In summer, it’s simple: terrace only.
In spring, autumn, and winter, you spend the day with the kids somewhere in the area of the living room / dining area / window seat.
If the exit to the terrace was directly between the kitchen counter and the island, I would see the advantage. But if the exit is directly behind the island anyway, I wonder how much benefit that really brings. For putting things down, the path is shorter. Otherwise it’s about the same: 3m (10 feet) vs. 6m (20 feet) to the fridge.
ypg schrieb:
The kitchen belongs to the terrace, since in summer you constantly go from outside to the fridge. If that works, okay. But then the living room would be in the east and significantly darker, especially if it remains separated in an L-shape.
ypg schrieb:
The size of the pantry / storage room can be roughly replaced by three tall cabinets. Yes, roughly, more like four to five, and a freezer would also fit in there. In terms of area, it would be quite different. Shelves in the pantry cost only a fraction of what the kitchen does.
Arauki11 schrieb:
I don’t want to attack you with this, but I wanted to show you a different perspective BEFORE you make this decision; of course, you can decide independently and that’s none of my business. No offense taken. Many of you work with this every day and know all kinds of scenarios. We feel like we’re dealing with this topic around the clock and might be overthinking it. You only gain new perspectives when you get independent input like yours here. That helps and encourages us to reconsider everything, exactly as you say: BEFORE making the decision.
I’ll try to explain again how we basically got to this point. This is not an explanation of the square meter sizes.
Primary: We want a home for ourselves. Based on space requirements, we roughly arrive at about 140m2 (1,500 sq ft). We want some garden space. As much natural light as possible. An L-shape for the open living area. On everything else, we’re open. The long list of requirements is a “wish list.” Since there’s a bungalow next door and we like flat roofs, that was our first thought. However, there are restrictions from the local building authority / planning permission regarding setbacks and such.
Secondary: We want a separate apartment for elderly single family members. Small, compact, initially for them for probably 20 years, then freely rentable.
The plot seems good enough, even though it’s not easy. That’s not up for discussion. The idea with the slope was to make use of it, especially since the houses to the left and right do the same. We’ve looked at countless solutions in the neighborhood with daylight basements. The visual and spatial separation appeals to us conceptually.
As amateurs, no matter how much we drew, without professional software and various size inputs for walls, ceilings, etc., we reached a point where we couldn’t progress further. Then we involved the independent architect and discussed these inputs (long list, separate apartment including some ideas and photos). From the start, we asked the architect to place the height as high as possible. That has not happened to this day. Instead of discarding the design, we obviously started to get stuck optimizing within this framework. Regarding the separate apartment, it became a matter of how to fit a compact bedroom and keep the open living space as large as possible.
The result: Many compromises and the separate apartment as it is.
Conclusion with your input so far: We’re going back to the drawing board and trying a completely different design.
njAiiii schrieb:
Yes, roughly 4-5, and a freezer would fit in there as well. In terms of area, that would make a noticeable difference. Shelves in the pantry cost only a fraction of what the kitchen shelves do.However, you won’t be able to install shelves deeper than 30-35cm (12-14 inches). Plus, with your 60cm (24 inches) opening, you first need to get a freezer through.hanse987 schrieb:
You won’t be able to install shelves deeper than about 30-35cm (12-14 inches). Also, with your 60cm (24 inches) opening, you first need to get a freezer through it. Thanks for the feedback.
There are freezers with a width of 54cm (21 inches) as well. But basically, that speaks against a 60cm (24 inches) passage.
Regarding the shelves: 30-35cm (12-14 inches) is easy. If we have a net depth of 120cm (47 inches), 50cm (20 inches) deep shelves work well for us in practice. We currently have that in our storage room outside, and it’s manageable. But that is getting too detailed again.
njAiiii schrieb:
Hello Hanse987,
Thank you for your opinion. What would work for you? Does the apartment need to be moved out of the basement level? Would raising the basement help? What exactly about the design doesn’t work? It’s difficult for me to take anything useful from just a flat rejection that could help improve the overall situation.
Do you have a granny flat or have you ever lived in a basement yourself and speak from experience? Since you mentioned me, here is my response. From the south-east view in your first post, you can only see above the grass line when standing. Older people spend a lot of time sitting, but with your design the view from a seated position is rather poor. I don’t think living in the basement is a bad idea, but it should offer more than just a light well. Additionally, an apartment intended for older residents should be reasonably accessible. This means it should be possible to move around freely with a walker, for example. In that regard, I find the bathroom layout quite borderline. In my opinion, access should also be without steps. These are my thoughts on the matter.
Similar topics