ᐅ Kitchen: Closed or Open Plan? What Layout Works Best?

Saruss schrieb:
And from the cooking island, you can’t really talk with people on the couch 10 meters (33 feet) away while frying, boiling, and using the range hood...

Cookingisland? Preparation island[B]! Stove against the wall.

Saruss schrieb:
Especially not if it’s a corner kitchen.

You don’t have to put it there then.

Saruss schrieb:
But for example, after eating you’d change rooms and wouldn’t enjoy your drink or evening surrounded by cooking aromas anymore.

I can understand that some might find the smell unpleasant. But the combination of a good range hood and controlled mechanical ventilation should limit or even prevent that from happening, right?

Saruss schrieb:
At least, I need more than just a pot and a pan that fit in the dishwasher.

Large cookware on the stove isn’t an issue if it’s reasonably clean on the outside. Buffets usually have way more stuff out. Smaller items that don’t fit in the first dishwasher load can stay in the sink covered until the next cycle. Use quick wash programs if helpful. Dirty baking sheets can be left in the oven overnight if needed. The "tidy" state doesn’t have to be the default of a brand-new kitchen, right?

Saruss schrieb:
Also, but this depends on personal preference, I would miss walls and storage space. I have two additional ones for cabinets, sideboards, dressers, etc.

With a U-shaped kitchen (or even a closed O-shaped one), how much extra storage do you really gain without pushing the kitchen cabinets too far apart? You end up creating unused corners and lose usable space compared to a two-wall kitchen. Unless you design a two-wall layout with an island plus free wall space behind it in a large room dedicated to the kitchen.

chand1986 schrieb:
Cooking island? Preparation island! Stove against the wall cabinets.

So? Whether the sink or the stove is on the island doesn't really make a big difference. The problem is that having both on the wall cabinets or both on the island is bad for the workflow. But since I thought you’d be cooking a lot with friends and socializing, having the stove and workspace on the island would be a good solution. We have it like that—with a very large island, mind you—and next to or on the other side of the stove there is enough space for food preparation.

chand1986 schrieb:

You don’t have to put it there.

But the user I was referring to wrote that he has a corner, which contradicts himself somehow.

chand1986 schrieb:

I can understand that the smell can be bothersome. But with a decent range hood and a controlled mechanical ventilation system, that shouldn’t be much of an issue, right!?

Not outside the room, but inside it is, unless you have a ducted range hood, not a recirculating one. Because the latter doesn’t reduce odors much, it mainly deals with moisture and grease.

chand1986 schrieb:

Large dishes on the stove don’t bother if they’re reasonably clean from the outside. There’s usually much more clutter on a buffet. Smaller items that don’t fit in the first dishwasher go in the sink, covered, waiting for the next load. Use quick programs when helpful. Dirty baking sheets can stay in the oven overnight if needed. The state of being "tidy" doesn’t have to be the default for a new kitchen, right?

To me, this sounds like making excuses. On one hand, other users tell me they clean up "immediately" and keep everything orderly so they’re not in a “messy” kitchen the next day. For me, that’s more than just hiding dirty stuff.
Using “like a new kitchen” as an argument here doesn’t make it right either. It’s simply a personal tolerance level, which is absolutely fine.

chand1986 schrieb:

With a U shape (or even a nearly closed O with a doorway), how much extra storage do you really gain without pushing the kitchen cabinets too far apart? You create dead corners and lose usable space compared to a galley kitchen. Unless you do a two-cabinet run with an island plus a free wall behind it in a large kitchen space.

I don’t understand this argument at all. I “gain” about 8 to 10 meters (26–33 feet; about 4–5 meters (13–16 feet) per side) of wall surface that you wouldn’t otherwise have, without moving anything apart—you’re not talking about a renovation but a direct design for separate rooms. So there is no problem with U or O shapes here. There are no dead corners, and the space lost is just the “footprint” of the wall. Since you’re planning two rooms from the start, you don’t lose usable space, you actually gain it. Many things can be placed or hung on a wall that would feel awkward in the middle of a room.
As a kitchen, you can still have a wall run with a large island in front, creating a great "kitchen workstation" with excellent workflow, short distances, easy access everywhere, and no excessive walking even when preparing complex dishes. A galley kitchen with an island is absolutely impractical.
By the way, my two young children have so much fun with the island in the room—you can easily include them while playing, and I’m glad I have one.

Saruss schrieb:
So? Whether the sink or the stove is on the island doesn’t really make a difference. However, having both on the wall unit or on the island is bad for the workflow, but since I thought you’d be spending a lot of time with friends and conversations there – especially then having the stove and workspace on the island would be a good solution.

That is definitely not the same. Usually, meal preparation requires more prep time than cooking time. And things can often cook on their own, but chopping doesn’t. When you also work with a combi-steamer, the stove is no longer the most used spot in the kitchen.

Saruss schrieb:
Not outside the room, but inside yes, unless you have a vented hood, not a recirculating hood. Because the latter doesn’t do much against odors, mostly just against water and grease vapor.

Good recirculating hoods with charcoal filters actually do a great job at reducing odors. The comment about grease applies to all hoods. Moisture can only be removed with vented extraction, not with recirculation.

Saruss schrieb:
To me, this isn’t just about hiding dirty stuff.

Temporarily storing items out of sight until the next dishwasher is free is not “hiding” but practical storage.

Saruss schrieb:
It’s simply a tolerance level that varies from person to person, which is fine.

I agree. If that threshold is already exceeded by a pot and a pan (or a wok), then a closed kitchen is definitely appropriate.

Saruss schrieb:
I don’t understand this argument at all. I “gain” about 8m-10m (4-5m each side) of wall space that you wouldn’t otherwise have, without stretching anything apart – it’s not a remodel but a direct plan with separate rooms. So the issue of open layout just doesn’t exist.

I think we’re talking past each other here. I assumed kitchen dimensions where an island is no longer possible with a closed layout. In that case, a closed kitchen doesn’t really bring much gain within the kitchen itself.
What you’re describing is a closed kitchen with an island, plus enough space behind it so that the kitchen side gains an entire additional long wall surface. That can be done, but I didn’t have that in mind when I commented.
The other walls will also have completely different lengths in a room like that.

Saruss schrieb:
Galley kitchens with an island are absolutely impractical.

Certainly. I meant galley kitchens where the island is the second row… Galley kitchens are ergonomically the best layout.

Saruss schrieb:
I’m glad I have one.

I’m a fan of islands too. Just prefer them in open layouts.

chand1986 schrieb:
By no means is it the same thing. Usually, dishes need more prep time than cooking time. And things can often cook on their own, but they won’t chop themselves. Also, if you’re using a combination steam oven, the stove is no longer the most frequently used spot in the kitchen.

That also depends on how and what you cook. At least for me, there are dishes that are a mix (searing, adding ingredients, repeating…), so it’s better if these workspaces are next to each other. But it might be different for you. Having the stove and sink on the same side takes up too much space in my opinion, or if there’s only about half a meter (20 inches) between stove and sink, and that space on a single wall is shared with other kitchen appliances (toaster, kettle, etc.), it doesn’t work well. But that also depends on the layout. For example, I wanted a sink wide enough to fit my baking trays or grill racks, at least in terms of width, which obviously takes up room. And I definitely need counter space next to the stove when cooking.

chand1986 schrieb:
Good recirculating hoods with carbon filters do a lot to reduce odors. Fat buildup is an issue for every hood. Only ducted hoods can remove moisture; recirculating hoods cannot.

However, carbon filters never remove all cooking smells, and anything the hood doesn’t capture—especially odors generated during prep or cooking away from the stove—can spread throughout the room.

chand1986 schrieb:
I don’t consider temporarily storing dishes until the dishwasher is free as “hiding” them, but rather sensible storage.

That’s a matter of perspective. After a long day, I’d probably just happen upon them by accident.

chand1986 schrieb:
I agree. If just one pot and one pan (or a wok) exceed that threshold, a closed kitchen is definitely justified.

That’s really an exaggeration. The boundaries are fluid, and so far, tidying up has been the minor argument for separating the rooms.

chand1986 schrieb:
I think we’re talking past each other. I was referring to kitchen dimensions where a closed layout no longer allows for an island. In that case, closing off the kitchen doesn’t really add much.

I’ve always been very clear that I mean a large kitchen including a seating area. With 12 square meters (about 130 square feet) or less, that obviously doesn’t make sense.

chand1986 schrieb:
Sure. I meant a galley kitchen where the island acts as the second run… Galley kitchens are ergonomically best. I’m also a fan of islands, just open ones.

Yes, definitely, and with an island you effectively add a third run—depending on the island—which is very practical for certain tasks. With an open plan, you can for example easily work together on a baking sheet or similar. But a galley with an island—if you were thinking of separate rooms—creates a constant obstacle course.
Otherwise, I wouldn’t really call my idea “closed,” just a separation. Basically, it’s an open-plan kitchen and a living room that we have instead of a combined kitchen-living room space.

You end up chopping more than stirring. A big advantage for the prep island. Also, cooking on an island is simply the most expensive option, since downdraft vents are costly and take up storage space within the island. Alternatively, you can consider a hanging island hood that is suspended in the room.

This seems very theoretical to me. What speaks against preparing and cooking on the island? Especially since we usually prepare all the courses before dinner and then only finish cooking and plating on the island while the guests are present.
An island without a cooktop would be almost pointless for me. The extractor fan takes up exactly one of 6 height units in my setup.