I hope I posted this in the right subforum...
Maybe a "silly" question, but I came across the topic of wall plugs because I want to secure some Ikea Pax wardrobes to the wall so they can’t tip over. Out of ignorance, until recently I’ve always just used TOX Tri plugs (mostly 6x36), simply because my father had them. After seeing an ad for Fischer DuoPower, I decided to look into the topic more thoroughly, but it actually left me more confused than helped.
My general question is how to choose the perfect wall plug, not in terms of wall material (I understand it has to fit the material), but regarding the diameter and length. What concerns me most is what exactly needs to be subtracted from the plug length. For example, here’s the situation: We have many reinforced concrete walls and a few Ytong walls (is Ytong the same as Poroton?). The reinforced concrete walls shouldn’t pose any problems in terms of load-bearing capacity... I think the Ytong walls aren’t that problematic either. However, there is plaster on the walls... I don’t know the exact thickness, but I found a nominal thickness of about 1.2cm (0.5 inches). In one spot with a reinforced concrete wall, the plaster is definitely thinner, around 0.5 or 0.6cm (0.2 or 0.25 inches). How should I factor this in when choosing plugs? Since the plug also goes into the plaster, but it doesn’t hold there. Am I correct in understanding that the holding values provided by plug manufacturers apply only to plugs installed directly in the base material, without plaster or anything else between the load-bearing material and the plug or fixture? That might not be very realistic, but okay.
For example, a Fischer DuoPower 6x30 plug with 1 to 1.2cm (0.5 inch) of plaster effectively has only about two-thirds or less of its holding strength left. So, do I have to deduct the plaster thickness from the plug length? And what exactly does that mean for my choice regarding diameter and especially length?
I already attached one Pax wardrobe some time ago to a Ytong wall using those TOX Tri 6x36 plugs. But considering there’s plaster as well, the plug is really only embedded two-thirds or three-quarters into the Ytong blocks. Subjectively, it feels stable... but does it really hold? Of course, I haven’t pulled on it hard to test... would that even be a meaningful test? These are two wardrobes (one 50cm (20 inches) and one 100cm (40 inches) wide), connected together and each wardrobe has a screw in both the upper right and left corners, so effectively four screws in total. The wardrobes stand on the floor; this is only an anti-tip measure. Still, I want to make sure they stay securely in place when our child starts climbing on them. If the TOX Tri 6x36 plugs are not really suitable for this application, I would replace them... but pulling them out will probably damage the holes making new plugs less effective, right?
Which plugs should I use for the remaining Pax wardrobes to be safe? According to the datasheet, Fischer DuoPower plugs have a higher load capacity than the TOX Tri... but again, what should I choose? A 6x30 plug seems a bit short, especially considering the plaster... alternatives would be 6x50, 8x40, or 8x65. According to the datasheet, a 6x50 holds more than an 8x40. For a layperson like me, the question is what speaks for or against a 6x50 vs an 8x40? Is it better to go thinner and longer or thicker and shorter? Or should I just take the 8x65?
I’m also generally interested in plug selection for other cases... for example, if I want to mount something really heavy on the wall like a TV with a swivel bracket. I imagine completely different forces apply there. What lengths and diameters should be used in such cases? Are TOX Tri or Fischer DuoPower suitable, or do I need something different altogether?
Maybe a "silly" question, but I came across the topic of wall plugs because I want to secure some Ikea Pax wardrobes to the wall so they can’t tip over. Out of ignorance, until recently I’ve always just used TOX Tri plugs (mostly 6x36), simply because my father had them. After seeing an ad for Fischer DuoPower, I decided to look into the topic more thoroughly, but it actually left me more confused than helped.
My general question is how to choose the perfect wall plug, not in terms of wall material (I understand it has to fit the material), but regarding the diameter and length. What concerns me most is what exactly needs to be subtracted from the plug length. For example, here’s the situation: We have many reinforced concrete walls and a few Ytong walls (is Ytong the same as Poroton?). The reinforced concrete walls shouldn’t pose any problems in terms of load-bearing capacity... I think the Ytong walls aren’t that problematic either. However, there is plaster on the walls... I don’t know the exact thickness, but I found a nominal thickness of about 1.2cm (0.5 inches). In one spot with a reinforced concrete wall, the plaster is definitely thinner, around 0.5 or 0.6cm (0.2 or 0.25 inches). How should I factor this in when choosing plugs? Since the plug also goes into the plaster, but it doesn’t hold there. Am I correct in understanding that the holding values provided by plug manufacturers apply only to plugs installed directly in the base material, without plaster or anything else between the load-bearing material and the plug or fixture? That might not be very realistic, but okay.
For example, a Fischer DuoPower 6x30 plug with 1 to 1.2cm (0.5 inch) of plaster effectively has only about two-thirds or less of its holding strength left. So, do I have to deduct the plaster thickness from the plug length? And what exactly does that mean for my choice regarding diameter and especially length?
I already attached one Pax wardrobe some time ago to a Ytong wall using those TOX Tri 6x36 plugs. But considering there’s plaster as well, the plug is really only embedded two-thirds or three-quarters into the Ytong blocks. Subjectively, it feels stable... but does it really hold? Of course, I haven’t pulled on it hard to test... would that even be a meaningful test? These are two wardrobes (one 50cm (20 inches) and one 100cm (40 inches) wide), connected together and each wardrobe has a screw in both the upper right and left corners, so effectively four screws in total. The wardrobes stand on the floor; this is only an anti-tip measure. Still, I want to make sure they stay securely in place when our child starts climbing on them. If the TOX Tri 6x36 plugs are not really suitable for this application, I would replace them... but pulling them out will probably damage the holes making new plugs less effective, right?
Which plugs should I use for the remaining Pax wardrobes to be safe? According to the datasheet, Fischer DuoPower plugs have a higher load capacity than the TOX Tri... but again, what should I choose? A 6x30 plug seems a bit short, especially considering the plaster... alternatives would be 6x50, 8x40, or 8x65. According to the datasheet, a 6x50 holds more than an 8x40. For a layperson like me, the question is what speaks for or against a 6x50 vs an 8x40? Is it better to go thinner and longer or thicker and shorter? Or should I just take the 8x65?
I’m also generally interested in plug selection for other cases... for example, if I want to mount something really heavy on the wall like a TV with a swivel bracket. I imagine completely different forces apply there. What lengths and diameters should be used in such cases? Are TOX Tri or Fischer DuoPower suitable, or do I need something different altogether?
With Ikea Pax wardrobes, it’s basically just tensile forces at play, since the wardrobes rest on the floor and the wall fixing only serves as a tilt protection... especially when kids try to climb or pull on them.
But I was generally interested in understanding more about the use of anchors... for example, soon a TV mount with a swivel arm will be installed on the wall, and quite significant forces act on it due to the lever effect.
But I was generally interested in understanding more about the use of anchors... for example, soon a TV mount with a swivel arm will be installed on the wall, and quite significant forces act on it due to the lever effect.
Based on experience, 6mm (0.24 inch) is suitable for almost everything, except when there are significant loads.
In your case, you have 4 of them in the wall, and if the wall is reinforced concrete, I would say that's more than enough. In my opinion, a small child wouldn’t be able to knock over a Pax cabinet anyway.
For loads, use 8mm (0.31 inch), and for swing hooks, 12mm (0.47 inch).
In your case, you have 4 of them in the wall, and if the wall is reinforced concrete, I would say that's more than enough. In my opinion, a small child wouldn’t be able to knock over a Pax cabinet anyway.
For loads, use 8mm (0.31 inch), and for swing hooks, 12mm (0.47 inch).
apokolok schrieb:
Based on experience, 6mm (1/4 inch) anchors work well for almost everything, except when there are really heavy loads.
Here, you have 4 of them in the wall, and if it’s reinforced concrete, I’d say that’s easily strong enough. In my opinion, a small child couldn’t tip over a PAX wardrobe anyway.
For heavy loads, use 8mm (5/16 inch), and for swing hooks, 12mm (1/2 inch).In concrete, it’s obviously quite straightforward... but two wardrobes need to be fixed to Ytong (aerated concrete) walls, for example... I’m considering the Fischer GB anchors for that—they should hold a bit better than the Tox Tri or Fischer DuoPower, right?
seat88 schrieb:
You’re worrying so much about a tip-over safety device for a PAX wardrobe? Oh dear... a tiny anchor would be enough, there’s hardly any force acting on it...I’m not sure what forces are involved exactly, but I would say “hardly any” is a stretch... once the thing reaches the tipping point—meaning enough weight is exerted as leverage (for example, a drawer or door is open and a child hangs on it or something)—that can get serious.
But it’s not just about the PAX wardrobe, even though that prompted these thoughts. It’s more generally about how to deal with anchors (plaster thickness, etc.) and what counts as short or long, and thick or thin when it comes to an anchor.
B
Bieber081519 Nov 2018 20:42Khullx1 schrieb:
TV Mount Our set included screws and wall plugs (if I recall correctly, size 8 plugs).
For an anti-tip bracket for a cabinet, in my opinion, a size 6 plug is definitely sufficient (size 5 is rare but would also work).
Make sure to buy products that include at least screws in the package when dealing with actual loads. That way, you’re covered.
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