ᐅ Planning kitchen appliances: How to approach it. The market is overwhelming.
Created on: 11 Sep 2017 12:34
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G-Star1988
Hello everyone,
I have an appointment at the kitchen studio next Saturday and I’m preparing for it. Specifically, I’m looking for the appliances I want to have later in the kitchen. I’ve been researching a lot from brands like Neff / Siemens, Miele, Bora, etc., but I’m not making much progress.
For example, the current selection at Siemens looks like this:
Dishwasher IQ300 SN636X03MD
Oven IQ700 HB634GBS1
Microwave IQ500 HF15M264
Cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor EX801LX34E
or
2 x Cooktop IQ700 EX375FXB1E with extractor IQ700 LF16VA570
(The cooktop with integrated downdraft is the only fixed requirement, unfortunately I don’t have any influence on that ^^)
I actually value quality, energy efficiency, and a balanced price-performance ratio. But how can I find out if what you pick is really good? Or if there are possibly cheaper but equally high-quality products from other manufacturers. For example, the cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor from Miele—according to the catalog, it’s cheaper but just as good or even better?
How do you approach this?
I have an appointment at the kitchen studio next Saturday and I’m preparing for it. Specifically, I’m looking for the appliances I want to have later in the kitchen. I’ve been researching a lot from brands like Neff / Siemens, Miele, Bora, etc., but I’m not making much progress.
For example, the current selection at Siemens looks like this:
Dishwasher IQ300 SN636X03MD
Oven IQ700 HB634GBS1
Microwave IQ500 HF15M264
Cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor EX801LX34E
or
2 x Cooktop IQ700 EX375FXB1E with extractor IQ700 LF16VA570
(The cooktop with integrated downdraft is the only fixed requirement, unfortunately I don’t have any influence on that ^^)
I actually value quality, energy efficiency, and a balanced price-performance ratio. But how can I find out if what you pick is really good? Or if there are possibly cheaper but equally high-quality products from other manufacturers. For example, the cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor from Miele—according to the catalog, it’s cheaper but just as good or even better?
How do you approach this?
K
Knallkörper23 Nov 2017 10:19daniels87 schrieb:
Now please show me a cooktop with 7.xx kW, with 5 zones that can be used simultaneously. I'm curious.You can take any model you like; this applies to all of them. If it is true that one power module supports 3 cooking zones, these are probably the smaller ones that only have about 1.5 kW each. That way, you can still run 2 zones at full power and 2 on the other side simultaneously. Try outlining a scenario where that wouldn’t be enough.
Show me a cook who works with 5 cooking zones at 11 kW. Show me a cooktop that doesn’t throttle due to overheating in that case. Even at lower power levels over longer periods, the electronics get extremely hot and the fan runs at full speed — at least that’s my experience with my old Bosch ceramic cooktop from the ’90s.
C
chand198623 Nov 2017 10:42There is nothing to add to what Knallkörper said.
My cooktop with 7.5 kW can handle that.
All burners set to 9 or in both power zones one on boost and the rest on 9. Set up with 5 fully loaded pots/pans. It works. But not continuously. Because with so much surface area in use, heat dissipation is insufficient and the thermal protection reduces power. The same happens with 11 kW, possibly even earlier, because heat is generated faster. The statement that I could not use full power with 5 pots is simply incorrect. I can only use the boost function on fewer pots simultaneously – that is correct.
You WANT it, I don’t deny that. However, the practical utility of a fully loaded cooktop tends toward zero, for physical reasons. So yes, I question the need. Does a cooktop have other quality features besides usefulness, operability, and safety (and possibly appearance)?
I will leave aside the hypothetical situation where everything is completely prepared and suddenly you want to heat up 5 pots quickly – in such a scenario, I stand by my statement that the limitation is not the cooktop.
Regardless of all that, it is important to ensure that the cooktop receives the appropriate connection power; otherwise, the discussion about a few kW is pointless. You need three phases, each supplying almost 16 A. This must be considered during planning. Cooktops can run with less, but they then do not perform at their optimum.
My cooktop with 7.5 kW can handle that.
All burners set to 9 or in both power zones one on boost and the rest on 9. Set up with 5 fully loaded pots/pans. It works. But not continuously. Because with so much surface area in use, heat dissipation is insufficient and the thermal protection reduces power. The same happens with 11 kW, possibly even earlier, because heat is generated faster. The statement that I could not use full power with 5 pots is simply incorrect. I can only use the boost function on fewer pots simultaneously – that is correct.
daniels87 schrieb:
So, and now I am being told here that I DON'T need this. Very interesting. I should have realized by now that someone here just wants to push their own opinion.
You WANT it, I don’t deny that. However, the practical utility of a fully loaded cooktop tends toward zero, for physical reasons. So yes, I question the need. Does a cooktop have other quality features besides usefulness, operability, and safety (and possibly appearance)?
I will leave aside the hypothetical situation where everything is completely prepared and suddenly you want to heat up 5 pots quickly – in such a scenario, I stand by my statement that the limitation is not the cooktop.
Regardless of all that, it is important to ensure that the cooktop receives the appropriate connection power; otherwise, the discussion about a few kW is pointless. You need three phases, each supplying almost 16 A. This must be considered during planning. Cooktops can run with less, but they then do not perform at their optimum.
I have an AEG induction cooktop with 4 zones, each 60cm (24 inches) wide. When using the boost function, it always reduces the power on a second cooking zone, limiting it to level 7 (scale from 1 to 9 plus boost with intermediate steps).
The boost function is really only useful for heating water. Quickly warming up a sauce from cold carries a high risk of burning. This boost is very powerful.
Almost all pans can be slightly damaged by using the boost. Cast iron or steel pans can warp due to excessive heating, and non-stick pans may burn or carbonize. We cook at levels 7, at most 8. Using boost only produces smoke from burning fat.
The boost function is really only useful for heating water. Quickly warming up a sauce from cold carries a high risk of burning. This boost is very powerful.
Almost all pans can be slightly damaged by using the boost. Cast iron or steel pans can warp due to excessive heating, and non-stick pans may burn or carbonize. We cook at levels 7, at most 8. Using boost only produces smoke from burning fat.
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daniels8726 Nov 2017 23:10With a large frying pan, I can easily stay on Boost mode for several minutes. With my favorite pan (40cm (15.7 inches), 31.5cm (12.4 inches) base), not much happens above setting 8 anyway.
Also, Boost doesn’t automatically mean the cooktop is delivering its maximum power. With cheap aluminum pans, I can run Boost plus setting 8 as well. With suitable cookware, you can push significantly more power in. Then the second cooking zone is basically inactive. It’s simple math: 3.2 kW Boost, 3.6 kW max, so 400 W remain. A cooktop isn’t a perpetual motion machine and won’t just add another 1000 W out of nowhere.
If heat dissipation isn’t working properly, I would first check the installation situation. Although I often run the cooktop at high load, the fan rarely runs at full speed. The cooktop actively dissipates heat through heat sinks. If the installation doesn’t allow proper heat dissipation, it will soon shut down. I’ve attached a picture of my (old) cooktop. The left side is the front. The fan draws air from below and blows it out the front of the cooktop. Here, 1. there must be enough space beneath the countertop (preferably also beveled), and 2. the air must also be able to exit the cabinet, otherwise it quickly becomes like a sauna.
Also, Boost doesn’t automatically mean the cooktop is delivering its maximum power. With cheap aluminum pans, I can run Boost plus setting 8 as well. With suitable cookware, you can push significantly more power in. Then the second cooking zone is basically inactive. It’s simple math: 3.2 kW Boost, 3.6 kW max, so 400 W remain. A cooktop isn’t a perpetual motion machine and won’t just add another 1000 W out of nowhere.
If heat dissipation isn’t working properly, I would first check the installation situation. Although I often run the cooktop at high load, the fan rarely runs at full speed. The cooktop actively dissipates heat through heat sinks. If the installation doesn’t allow proper heat dissipation, it will soon shut down. I’ve attached a picture of my (old) cooktop. The left side is the front. The fan draws air from below and blows it out the front of the cooktop. Here, 1. there must be enough space beneath the countertop (preferably also beveled), and 2. the air must also be able to exit the cabinet, otherwise it quickly becomes like a sauna.
C
chand198627 Nov 2017 01:33daniels87 schrieb:
With a large pan, I can easily stay on Boost for several minutes. With my favorite pan (40cm (16 inches), 31.5cm (12.4 inches) base), there’s hardly any action above setting 8 anyway.Not enough power supply? With a pan of the same size, my coating burns off after 2.5 minutes (had a small accident once when a delivery person rang the doorbell). And if I have the cast iron pan on "only" 9 for "several" minutes, the fat smokes like crazy. I don’t even dare to use Boost. The steak turns into coal.
daniels87 schrieb:
Also, Boost doesn’t automatically mean the cooktop is delivering its maximum power. With cheap aluminum pans, I can run Boost + setting 8. With suitable cookware, significantly more power can go in. Then the second zone is dead. It’s pretty simple math.. 3.2 kW Boost, 3.6 kW Max.. leaves 400 W. A cooktop isn’t a perpetual motion machine that adds another 1000 W.Is this supposed to be a joke?
Your stove varies the magnetic field intensity on the same setting and cooking zone depending on the cookware?
If your stove limits power output differently for different cookware on different zones at various settings, that has absolutely zero to do with power capacity—if true, you have a different problem.
Furthermore, the laws of physics strongly doubt that your induction stove can even heat aluminum at all. Whether cheap or expensive doesn’t matter.
Check if you actually have a ceramic glass cooktop...
Where exactly does Boost consume 3.2/3.6 = about 89% of the power circuit?
Honestly, I now believe your current stove isn’t functioning as it should (or could), judging by the stories you tell here.
From experience with a modest 7.5 kW unit, I can report completely different results.
No induction cooktop in the world heats aluminum. There’s always at least steel or iron included in the cookware. If not, and it still heats, it’s not an induction stove.
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