ᐅ Planning kitchen appliances: How to approach it. The market is overwhelming.
Created on: 11 Sep 2017 12:34
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G-Star1988
Hello everyone,
I have an appointment at the kitchen studio next Saturday and I’m preparing for it. Specifically, I’m looking for the appliances I want to have later in the kitchen. I’ve been researching a lot from brands like Neff / Siemens, Miele, Bora, etc., but I’m not making much progress.
For example, the current selection at Siemens looks like this:
Dishwasher IQ300 SN636X03MD
Oven IQ700 HB634GBS1
Microwave IQ500 HF15M264
Cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor EX801LX34E
or
2 x Cooktop IQ700 EX375FXB1E with extractor IQ700 LF16VA570
(The cooktop with integrated downdraft is the only fixed requirement, unfortunately I don’t have any influence on that ^^)
I actually value quality, energy efficiency, and a balanced price-performance ratio. But how can I find out if what you pick is really good? Or if there are possibly cheaper but equally high-quality products from other manufacturers. For example, the cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor from Miele—according to the catalog, it’s cheaper but just as good or even better?
How do you approach this?
I have an appointment at the kitchen studio next Saturday and I’m preparing for it. Specifically, I’m looking for the appliances I want to have later in the kitchen. I’ve been researching a lot from brands like Neff / Siemens, Miele, Bora, etc., but I’m not making much progress.
For example, the current selection at Siemens looks like this:
Dishwasher IQ300 SN636X03MD
Oven IQ700 HB634GBS1
Microwave IQ500 HF15M264
Cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor EX801LX34E
or
2 x Cooktop IQ700 EX375FXB1E with extractor IQ700 LF16VA570
(The cooktop with integrated downdraft is the only fixed requirement, unfortunately I don’t have any influence on that ^^)
I actually value quality, energy efficiency, and a balanced price-performance ratio. But how can I find out if what you pick is really good? Or if there are possibly cheaper but equally high-quality products from other manufacturers. For example, the cooktop with integrated downdraft extractor from Miele—according to the catalog, it’s cheaper but just as good or even better?
How do you approach this?
D
daniels8727 Nov 2017 23:40Of course, it is not the power to be supplied that increases, but the amount of energy to be supplied, and therefore the power consumption. It is late, I should go to bed.
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chand198629 Nov 2017 10:51You can always learn something new. However, I am still not convinced, neither by the answers from 77.willo nor by the OP’s.
First, I want to make sure we are not talking past each other: I understood that an induction hob, at the same power setting, draws more current from the outlet depending on the material placed on the hob.
Okay.
That describes the efficiency inside the pot. But that was not my question, see above! The actual heating happens only at the interface between pot and hob – what reaches the food depends on many other factors like material thickness.
Accordingly, I am very curious about the measurement results. It is important that a hob measured in this way has no control electronics that adjust temperature relative to the pot bottom, otherwise you won’t get a valid answer.
Aha! Thanks, learned something new. That should definitely be measurable then.
First, I want to make sure we are not talking past each other: I understood that an induction hob, at the same power setting, draws more current from the outlet depending on the material placed on the hob.
77.willo schrieb:
Law of conservation of energy. If the energy is not converted into heat (aluminum), it simply isn’t converted, so either no or a lower current flows. The same happens with the current in a transformer without a load on the secondary side—namely nothing.
Okay.
77.willo schrieb:
Calculate it with a thermometer and a defined amount of water. Use geothermal heat from the starting temperature to 95°C (203°F) and stop the timer. Then you can calculate the amount of energy “transferred to the water.”
That describes the efficiency inside the pot. But that was not my question, see above! The actual heating happens only at the interface between pot and hob – what reaches the food depends on many other factors like material thickness.
Accordingly, I am very curious about the measurement results. It is important that a hob measured in this way has no control electronics that adjust temperature relative to the pot bottom, otherwise you won’t get a valid answer.
daniels87 schrieb:
You cannot compare the power section of an induction cooktop to a transformer. It is a resonant circuit, or a resonant converter. The IGBTs only supply the amount of energy taken from the resonant circuit.
Aha! Thanks, learned something new. That should definitely be measurable then.
K
Knallkörper29 Nov 2017 13:0077.willo schrieb:
Calculate it using a thermometer and a defined amount of water. Measure the geothermal heat from the starting temperature up to 95 degrees Celsius (203°F) and stop the time. Then you can calculate the amount of energy that has been transferred “into the water.”I’ll add my thoughts again. That seems too imprecise to me. Power and energy could be calculated, and different pots could be compared in terms of their power consumption, which is fine to a certain extent. But as an absolute value, you probably won’t get anything accurate. For that, you would also need to estimate or calculate losses due to radiation and convection from the pot’s surface.
P.S.: To the electricians: what does my cooktop actually do with the third phase if it only has two heating elements?
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daniels8729 Nov 2017 17:40chand1986 schrieb:
You can always learn more. Still, I’m not convinced yet, neither by 77.willo’s answers nor by the original poster’s.
First, I want to make sure we’re not talking past each other: I understood it as the induction hob drawing more current from the power supply at the same setting, depending on the material of the cookware placed on it.Exactly. The magnetic field would still be generated even without a pot if the pot detection is bypassed. However, the energy from the collapse of the magnetic field after each pulse (usually in the kHz range) is mostly returned to the resonant circuit with minimal losses (self-induction). Only the losses need to be compensated for, which are low without a load.
For deeper insights, there is good literature on power electronics.
@Knallkörper: If your cooktop uses three phases, it will also have three power modules. Two of these could be on the same circuit board. Each phase is used separately, so 3 x 230 V, not 400 V (at least, I haven’t seen any otherwise). For more details, I would need a photo from the inside.
By the way: People keep referring to the original poster, but is he still active here?
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chand198629 Nov 2017 18:09Sorry, I completely forgot that YOU didn’t start the thread. I meant you.
Thanks for the further explanation. That makes sense now.
Now the only question left is how hot you get when you boost a pan for a few minutes.
Thanks for the further explanation. That makes sense now.
Now the only question left is how hot you get when you boost a pan for a few minutes.
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daniels8729 Nov 2017 18:28Maybe I just like using the boost function.
Last situation, when my old cooktop broke: I sliced 2 pointed cabbages (~1500g) and fried them in my 40cm (16 inch) pan, then deglazed with 500ml (17 fl oz) of wine. After the wine evaporated and I added 800ml (27 fl oz) of strained tomatoes, the residual current device tripped... felt like 4-5 minutes on boost. On the other burner, there was a large pot with pasta water also on boost. In this case, it wasn’t a problem because only these two appliances were on the cooktop, but that’s not always the case.
Last situation, when my old cooktop broke: I sliced 2 pointed cabbages (~1500g) and fried them in my 40cm (16 inch) pan, then deglazed with 500ml (17 fl oz) of wine. After the wine evaporated and I added 800ml (27 fl oz) of strained tomatoes, the residual current device tripped... felt like 4-5 minutes on boost. On the other burner, there was a large pot with pasta water also on boost. In this case, it wasn’t a problem because only these two appliances were on the cooktop, but that’s not always the case.
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