ᐅ Heat pumps consume a significant amount of energy and can generate considerable noise.
Created on: 17 Jan 2024 18:26
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Eldirwars
Hello everyone,
We have been living in our new house for one month now and are experiencing significant noise issues. The noise comes from the manifold of the underfloor heating system as well as the pump itself, which is very loud. The sounds are mostly sharp clicking or ticking noises, especially noticeable in the bedroom. The flow rate and the pump settings have been adjusted, but nothing has improved. However, it is always quiet in the early morning hours. Could it possibly be due to a setting on the unit? The heating technician has already been here but is unsure of the cause. Another technician from Bosch is scheduled to come and take a look, but I’m not sure if the pump is the problem. Also, the house is barely warming up at the current temperatures, and I am using more than 30 kWh daily, which seems very high for a 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) home.
We have been living in our new house for one month now and are experiencing significant noise issues. The noise comes from the manifold of the underfloor heating system as well as the pump itself, which is very loud. The sounds are mostly sharp clicking or ticking noises, especially noticeable in the bedroom. The flow rate and the pump settings have been adjusted, but nothing has improved. However, it is always quiet in the early morning hours. Could it possibly be due to a setting on the unit? The heating technician has already been here but is unsure of the cause. Another technician from Bosch is scheduled to come and take a look, but I’m not sure if the pump is the problem. Also, the house is barely warming up at the current temperatures, and I am using more than 30 kWh daily, which seems very high for a 150 m² (1,615 sq ft) home.
J
jens.knoedel18 Jan 2024 10:30Eldirwars schrieb:
When the Bosch technician came for the installation, he also suggested setting all thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) to 30 and checking whether the flow temperature is sufficient. This is now the common approach. Either fully open or leave the TRVs fully open and regulate the temperatures via the heating system.
I would fully open ALL TRVs. Adjust the flow rate at the radiator valve as calculated—that is, as specified in the hydraulic balancing. Afterwards, perform the thermal balancing. That means adjusting so that all rooms reach your desired temperature without needing to adjust the TRVs.
Eldirwars schrieb:
But I find this wasteful since the bedroom is set to 18°C (64°F), the living room to 21°C (70°F), and recently the kids’ room has also been set to 22°C (72°F) according to standards (for underfloor heating pipe spacing). Wouldn’t the unused kids’ room then always get more heat than necessary? You can then adjust that specifically for the kids’ room. But wasteful? No, you still haven’t understood. If you don’t heat the kids’ room sufficiently, the surrounding rooms will end up heating it. The energy consumption will remain the same, just shifted elsewhere. Having the bedroom at 18°C (64°F) and the kids’ room at 22°C (72°F) is already problematic in itself—think of it like a refrigerator or thermos flask effect. Temperatures will equalize; you won’t get significant differences in a new build.
KingJulien schrieb:
First, read up on balancing, otherwise this will get bogged down in unnecessary details again. That also helps a lot. You can find plenty of information about this in the forum as well.
J
jens.knoedel18 Jan 2024 10:33Eldirwars schrieb:
Hydraulic balancing for the entire house. However, the head of the heating company did not adjust it according to any list or similar. The length in meters (feet) of each circuit’s piping was noted. Based on these lengths, he then set the flow between 0.8 and 2.0 liters (0.2 to 0.5 gallons). For example, 0.8 at 60 meters (200 feet), 1.5 at 120 meters (400 feet). So, in my opinion, it was all very imprecise. Very imprecise and just a rough estimate.
A more precise example looks like this:
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Eldirwars18 Jan 2024 10:59But isn’t it the case that if I open all the ERR valves, the pump continuously tries to reach the temperature and constantly wants to "rev up," but can’t manage it?
The device itself also has either an optimized temperature setting or an automatic mode, which lowers the temperature by a few degrees at night. Currently, the optimized temperature is set to 22°C (72°F). Is this related in any way?
The device itself also has either an optimized temperature setting or an automatic mode, which lowers the temperature by a few degrees at night. Currently, the optimized temperature is set to 22°C (72°F). Is this related in any way?
J
jens.knoedel18 Jan 2024 11:08Eldirwars schrieb:
But isn’t it the case that if I open all ERRs, the heat pump will constantly try to reach the temperature and always be "giving gas," but it can’t manage? Why shouldn’t the heat pump manage that? It does the same as it does now – heating. However, it doesn’t have to work at full power anymore because you want to heat a 140m² (1507 sq ft) house with only 80m² (861 sq ft).
As a comparison: If a V8 engine in a 3-ton (3.3 US ton) car runs in cylinder deactivation mode with only 4 cylinders active, the engine has to work at full capacity. With all 8 cylinders running at low power, it runs much more relaxed and even consumes less fuel.
Eldirwars schrieb:
At the device What device?
Eldirwars schrieb:
Either an optimized temperature or an automatic mode, where it lowers the temperature by a few degrees at night. Lowering the temperature at night is no longer done with heat pumps. That’s a holdover from oil and gas heating times.
Eldirwars schrieb:
Currently, the optimized temperature is set to 22 degrees; is that related somehow? No idea what an optimized temperature means. With my heat pump, and many others, you control heating based on the outdoor temperature and the heating curve.
Where is this optimized temperature measured? Hopefully not in a children’s room that isn’t even heated... 🙄
Eldirwars schrieb:
But isn’t it the case that if I open all the ERR, the pump will constantly try to reach the temperature and keep "giving gas," but it can’t achieve it? Why do you assume that the "pump" cannot reach the target temperature of 22°C (71.6°F)?
If enough energy is supplied from outside to your house (and you don’t keep opening windows and doors all the time in winter), that energy stays inside (is retained), and you only need to replace what is lost through ventilation or other means (no insulation is perfect).
P.S. Regarding different room temperatures, the first law of thermodynamics applies (in a closed "internal" system, no energy is lost).
Further laws state that temperatures within this closed system will equalize. Small differences (delta) can exist temporarily. Significant differences usually indicate that a) underfloor heating is generally too slow to respond, and b) the interior walls are not sufficiently insulated from each other.
Eldirwars schrieb:
On the unit itself, there is either an optimized temperature option or an automatic mode, which lowers the temperature by a few degrees at night. Currently, the optimized temperature is set to 22 degrees. Is this related somehow? Night setback doesn’t make sense in modern houses. It only makes sense in drafty or poorly insulated older buildings.
Many HVAC technicians do not correctly configure heat pumps. I had the manufacturer’s service come out. Their first step was to disable the electric heating element 😎 and limit the maximum temperature. Since then (about 2 years ago), the heat pump has been running perfectly without much intervention from me (I only increase the maximum temperature by 1°C (2°F) during winter).
However, we still lack sufficient information from you. What is the standard or energy rating of your house, and which heat pump model do you have exactly?
Also, pictures of the heating circuit?
P.P.S. I left this open for 45 minutes without sending, and someone replied in the meantime ;/
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Eldirwars18 Jan 2024 12:19I am not assuming 22°C (72°F), but rather 30°C (86°F) set on the thermostat in the different rooms. My thought was that the compressor would constantly try to reach 30°C (86°F), which is not possible with this heating curve. Or is the "optimized temperature" that you can set on the unit the target or maximum temperature that the system will heat to? If that is the case, where is the temperature measured? At the unit itself? So, in the technical room, where it is usually cooler anyway?
The unit is a Compress 6800i AW from Bosch – a ground source heat pump. The building is only KfW 55 standard with masonry walls made of 36 bricks without additional insulation. So, it’s not a greenhouse.
The electric auxiliary heater is permanently off. Heating curve set with 28°C (82°F) base point and 35°C (95°F) endpoint. Maximum supply temperature is 45°C (113°F).
The noise definitely comes from the heating circuit distributor and sounds like a radiator in my parents’ house when the water flows through it.
The unit is a Compress 6800i AW from Bosch – a ground source heat pump. The building is only KfW 55 standard with masonry walls made of 36 bricks without additional insulation. So, it’s not a greenhouse.
The electric auxiliary heater is permanently off. Heating curve set with 28°C (82°F) base point and 35°C (95°F) endpoint. Maximum supply temperature is 45°C (113°F).
The noise definitely comes from the heating circuit distributor and sounds like a radiator in my parents’ house when the water flows through it.
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