ᐅ Creating a Plan for Insulating an Old Building – How to Proceed?
Created on: 30 Aug 2022 10:30
T
Tobibi
Hello,
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
I’m currently trying to make a plan for how to best improve the insulation of our house. I hope I can write everything down clearly so that some of you might be able to give me tips or suggest different approaches.
We bought a large house from 1982, about 200 sqm (2,150 sq ft) of living space. There is an approximately 6-year-old heat pump for heating and hot water, and a small wood stove in the living room. The ground floor and first floor have underfloor heating, while three basement rooms and a converted room above the garage have radiators. These radiators have a separate heating circuit with their own flow temperature and are rarely used, actually not at all in the basement.
In the main bedroom on the first floor, the previous owner opened the ceiling a few years ago, creating a high space that goes up to the roof ridge. The roof was insulated at that time, but I don’t have any documentation on how well. The rest of the house remains in its original condition, so basically uninsulated.
The walls are solid brick. The wooden windows have double glazing. Many windows and the front door do not seal well, allowing noticeable drafts at some windows. The top floor ceiling is not concrete but made of joists, covered underneath on the first floor with drywall and boards on top. Between the joists, there appears to be rock wool insulation packed in.
We have a 9 kWp photovoltaic system with battery storage, which the previous owner also installed. As it currently stands, the electricity from the photovoltaic system cannot be used for the heat pump, only for other household electricity. There is a separate meter with a heating electricity contract. Surplus electricity is fed back into the grid.
I recently received the heating electricity bill, showing that from March 2021 to March 2022—one full year—we used about 12,500 kWh for heating and hot water, which I find quite high. I definitely want to take action, especially since electricity prices are rising sharply. I’m not an experienced DIYer, but I can assist and have very helpful father and father-in-law who have a lot of skills. So, some things could be done ourselves, although time is always a factor.
A no-brainer seems to be replacing the window seals and adjusting them so they close tightly again. I am already in contact with a company for this.
Next, I’m thinking about insulating the roller shutter boxes. I would probably get a company to do this as well.
I’m considering insulating the basement ceiling with insulation boards that can be glued or fixed with plugs. If there are instructions available, we would rather do that ourselves. Or should I focus on insulating the top floor ceiling or installing insulation between the rafters? Or both? Probably not at the same time—maybe one this year and the other in a year or two. What would be the better order?
Would it make sense to modify the photovoltaic system so that the electricity can be used for the heat pump? I would have to hire an electrician for that, which costs money. But then the electricity would be usable for heating, and there would be only one basic fee. On the other hand, the yield in winter is not very good, and I would lose the cheaper heating electricity tariff. I once tracked generated, fed-in, self-used, and purchased electricity over a longer period and basically concluded that the conversion might not be worthwhile. But now electricity prices are rising dramatically.
Insulating the facade and/or installing new windows is honestly too expensive for me right now. On the other hand, we will need to have the entire exterior repainted next year or the year after. That costs several thousand when done professionally, which would almost offset the cost of external wall insulation. But presumably, these two should go together—insulation and new windows—because doing only one is not sensible and could cause problems with condensation.
So, that turned out to be quite a long message. I hope it’s understandable. How would you proceed? If I forgot anything, just ask. I might also add a follow-up later.
Best regards,
Tobi
N
nordanney23 Mar 2024 21:09Oh yes, with a lambda of 0.000120 and a thickness of 0.5mm (0.02 inches), the U-value is 2.4, based on my basic knowledge.
I would like to revisit this topic if there are still interested readers here.
I was recommended a similar product by my business partner (loft doors and powder coating, so no hocus-pocus—his old school friend manufactures and distributes this coating across Europe from the Czech Republic) after I told him about my damp, uninsulated garage.
Being open to new and unusual things and already traveling in my birth country Poland, I quickly arranged an appointment and, together with my business partner/friend, visited the manufacturing company in Warsaw.
What I was shown there initially seemed almost like a miracle product (at least for someone like me without prior knowledge), similar to what Adam described here.
I have included the data sheet translated into German here. For the experts among you, it should be easy to decide if the data is acceptable.
As I mentioned, I’m not knowledgeable on this topic and remain very skeptical, but what I witnessed on site often left me speechless.
A brief example:
In the morning, we were at a construction site of the financial authority in Warsaw, where the basement archive is currently being treated room by room. With a paint sprayer—(I was told it operates at lower pressure to apply the thicker paste resembling white foam rubber or marshmallow filling)—the walls were sprayed.
A few details from the data I recorded:
Outside temperature: 13°C (55°F) in the morning, rainy.
Room temperature of the unfinished, cleared storage room: 14°C (57°F) / humidity 100%.
Mold on the walls, water stains, odors, etc.
According to the technical manager of the authority, external insulation was not possible because the outer wall is at the street curb and partly under monument protection.
Room temperature of a finished room after four coats on the outer wall totaling 2.5cm (1 inch) thickness and 1mm (0.04 inch) thick interior walls: 20°C (68°F) and 55% humidity.
Completion of the room was about 3 weeks before the inspection.
Comfortable indoor climate, no odors, stains, or mold.
None of the rooms are heated or insulated.
I was shocked and still am, but naturally, I remain skeptical because of the saying “what the builder doesn’t know”…
There were a few other industrial examples shown to me as well. Sealing of hot pipes and reducing room temperature, sealing of hydrogen containers, and so on.
I know there has been heated discussion here and Poland has been somewhat criticized because this “innovation” apparently originates there. It would not be the first time a Pole has introduced something revolutionary.
There are many examples, so please don’t put yourselves too high on the German pedestal and don’t look down too much on neighboring countries.
Regarding the patent, I can clarify this mystery and don’t understand why Adam left it so vague.
According to the manufacturer, it cannot be patented because a patent already exists.
Anyone familiar with aluminum die casting and chill molds will know this coating well.
According to the manufacturer, it was only modified and reformulated so it can be used in construction.
Some have tried it and some exploit it out of profit greed. One company mentioned here uses silicates to make the miracle product work—and what that does in rooms is even obvious to me.
But now to the most important part...
I received a few buckets as a gift and will be applying it to my garage over the next few weeks after an intensive short training on how to use it and the right pump. I will document this, and then we will have to wait and see.
The seller does not simply sell the product. It requires a two-day training course costing about €180 (including accommodation).
This doesn’t seem like just a money grab, and it shows that it’s important to him that applicators know what they are doing for it to work properly.
I hardly doubt that it somehow works, but I remain very skeptical about its durability. The owner gives me a 25-year guarantee on the coating’s functionality, but this thread probably won’t last that long.
Now I’m curious about your opinions on the technical data sheet and my experiences.
I sell samples filled in 1-liter (1.06 quart) resealable bags for €8 if there is anything left.
I was recommended a similar product by my business partner (loft doors and powder coating, so no hocus-pocus—his old school friend manufactures and distributes this coating across Europe from the Czech Republic) after I told him about my damp, uninsulated garage.
Being open to new and unusual things and already traveling in my birth country Poland, I quickly arranged an appointment and, together with my business partner/friend, visited the manufacturing company in Warsaw.
What I was shown there initially seemed almost like a miracle product (at least for someone like me without prior knowledge), similar to what Adam described here.
I have included the data sheet translated into German here. For the experts among you, it should be easy to decide if the data is acceptable.
As I mentioned, I’m not knowledgeable on this topic and remain very skeptical, but what I witnessed on site often left me speechless.
A brief example:
In the morning, we were at a construction site of the financial authority in Warsaw, where the basement archive is currently being treated room by room. With a paint sprayer—(I was told it operates at lower pressure to apply the thicker paste resembling white foam rubber or marshmallow filling)—the walls were sprayed.
A few details from the data I recorded:
Outside temperature: 13°C (55°F) in the morning, rainy.
Room temperature of the unfinished, cleared storage room: 14°C (57°F) / humidity 100%.
Mold on the walls, water stains, odors, etc.
According to the technical manager of the authority, external insulation was not possible because the outer wall is at the street curb and partly under monument protection.
Room temperature of a finished room after four coats on the outer wall totaling 2.5cm (1 inch) thickness and 1mm (0.04 inch) thick interior walls: 20°C (68°F) and 55% humidity.
Completion of the room was about 3 weeks before the inspection.
Comfortable indoor climate, no odors, stains, or mold.
None of the rooms are heated or insulated.
I was shocked and still am, but naturally, I remain skeptical because of the saying “what the builder doesn’t know”…
There were a few other industrial examples shown to me as well. Sealing of hot pipes and reducing room temperature, sealing of hydrogen containers, and so on.
I know there has been heated discussion here and Poland has been somewhat criticized because this “innovation” apparently originates there. It would not be the first time a Pole has introduced something revolutionary.
There are many examples, so please don’t put yourselves too high on the German pedestal and don’t look down too much on neighboring countries.
Regarding the patent, I can clarify this mystery and don’t understand why Adam left it so vague.
According to the manufacturer, it cannot be patented because a patent already exists.
Anyone familiar with aluminum die casting and chill molds will know this coating well.
According to the manufacturer, it was only modified and reformulated so it can be used in construction.
Some have tried it and some exploit it out of profit greed. One company mentioned here uses silicates to make the miracle product work—and what that does in rooms is even obvious to me.
But now to the most important part...
I received a few buckets as a gift and will be applying it to my garage over the next few weeks after an intensive short training on how to use it and the right pump. I will document this, and then we will have to wait and see.
The seller does not simply sell the product. It requires a two-day training course costing about €180 (including accommodation).
This doesn’t seem like just a money grab, and it shows that it’s important to him that applicators know what they are doing for it to work properly.
I hardly doubt that it somehow works, but I remain very skeptical about its durability. The owner gives me a 25-year guarantee on the coating’s functionality, but this thread probably won’t last that long.
Now I’m curious about your opinions on the technical data sheet and my experiences.
I sell samples filled in 1-liter (1.06 quart) resealable bags for €8 if there is anything left.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but in a fire regulation according to ISO or EN, it does not matter whether it is issued for construction, vehicles, or anything else. Non-combustible means non-combustible, regardless of where it burns. The ISO standard is consistent because the criteria can be applied to walls and steel alike. Construction, industrial, automotive, shipbuilding, etc., etc. One ISO standard is sufficient for all.
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