A kitchen topic: After just two consultations, I’m already completely fed up with those annoying kitchen salespeople.
I feel totally ripped off. You look at a kitchen, ask for the price—which of course isn’t displayed—and then you faint... €20,000 (about $21,600).
After the initial shock, the salesperson offers the first discounts... after two hours, you’re down to €12,000 (about $13,000) but still feel like you’re being taken for a ride.
If you then want to compare kitchens from the same brand, you can’t, because nobody gives you the itemized lists.
Everyone knows that dealers do this on purpose to be able to offer those huge discounts. I’m done with it.
How do you negotiate your kitchen, or how do you compare prices?
I feel totally ripped off. You look at a kitchen, ask for the price—which of course isn’t displayed—and then you faint... €20,000 (about $21,600).
After the initial shock, the salesperson offers the first discounts... after two hours, you’re down to €12,000 (about $13,000) but still feel like you’re being taken for a ride.
If you then want to compare kitchens from the same brand, you can’t, because nobody gives you the itemized lists.
Everyone knows that dealers do this on purpose to be able to offer those huge discounts. I’m done with it.
How do you negotiate your kitchen, or how do you compare prices?
A
angoletti129 Jan 2014 14:58Haha, nice to hear I wasn’t the only one who experienced this. A few weeks ago, I decided to try playing harder with the salesperson than she was playing with me.
The advertising everywhere said you get the appliances for free, and so on — the usual stuff. I went there alone at first, and right after the greeting, of course, the first question was about my budget. I tried to keep it vague, but the lady wouldn’t let up, so I said, “My absolute maximum is 7,000€ including a granite countertop.” She started coughing, and I was about to turn and leave, but she said she’d try to stay within that range.
I then spent 3.5 hours with her putting the kitchen together — planning, looking, considering, and so on. I was only interested in the shapes and appliances. We ended up at 18,000 without granite. Deducting the appliances that I supposedly got for free and so on, we ended up at 12,000 if I decided today and within a limited time, and so on. Right then, I made it clear to her that I wasn’t signing anything today, but would come back with my partner for colors and details when the price was somewhat reasonable and not so unrealistic. “Yes, but with the high-quality fronts that are coated multiple times and all the rest, it’s expensive, blah blah blah” (I stopped listening at some point).
I didn’t care — this is simply the only kitchen I like, and my budget is fixed because there’s no magical money tree. After I stayed absolutely firm, and her boss came by twice during that time and she even went for a consultation with him, we ended up at 9,000. That worked well; my original budget was 10,000, and I obviously knew there would be no granite for that. After 4 hours, she was visibly exhausted, and I had eaten cake and had a good drink. She said I should come back soon because the offer would only last a few more days, and so on. Yeah, yeah, I know, but okay, let’s play along.
The next day I went back with two women. I should mention here that I don’t care much about the kitchen itself — it only has to look good to me when I’m in it; the rest doesn’t matter. As expected, the fridge I had chosen was too small, the sink needed an extra prep bowl, the dishwasher required some extra functions, different color, different countertop, an oven upgrade, and a range hood made of pure black glass. Oh well, fine by me, the look and layout remained the same. At one point, the salesperson refused to include all the chosen items because “the budget is way exceeded.” I didn’t care — the ladies had decided, so just do it or we would leave.
After another 3 hours, the most expensive sink in the showroom, and lots of extras, we had everything set. She started calculating again and came up with a price of over 22,000 instead of the previous 18,000. I told her straight that I wasn’t interested in yesterday’s back-and-forth again and that we could save ourselves that. “The changes add up to more than 4,000 extra, which is well beyond what you wanted to spend.” Nice try, and it was good that I had nothing else planned that day. “We already discussed that price yesterday; today is just about the details, but now that’s clear, so let’s finalize this.” Naturally, for 20 minutes she went on about live and let live and why it’s not possible and so forth. I leaned back calmly, let her talk, and thought about dinner.
Then I proposed a compromise: I wasn’t willing to pay more, but since the two women had really gone wild on the upgrades, they could each chip in a hundred euros, so we’d end up at 9,200. The usual again — she had to ask the boss, who came by and spoke with us very politely. I looked him straight in the eye, draped my jacket over my arm, and said I’d like to sign now. He realized that we would have walked away otherwise and printed everything out.
Lo and behold, we went from over 22,000 down to 9,200, including delivery, installation, a 5-year warranty, and a free check-up after 12 months to adjust doors and similar things. I think that was fairly reasonable, or at least something I could live with. Funny enough, the two women stayed completely out of the price negotiation and kept referring back to me. If either of them had given in, hesitated, or gushed about the “great kitchen,” my bargaining position would have been lost. Good thing I had started looking 9 months before the house completion so I wasn’t in a hurry and would have just gone home if it hadn’t gone the way I wanted. The salesperson knew that too, basically saying, “I don’t HAVE to sell the kitchen today.”
I’m sure they still made a good profit, which is fine — I just don’t have to make anyone rich...
The advertising everywhere said you get the appliances for free, and so on — the usual stuff. I went there alone at first, and right after the greeting, of course, the first question was about my budget. I tried to keep it vague, but the lady wouldn’t let up, so I said, “My absolute maximum is 7,000€ including a granite countertop.” She started coughing, and I was about to turn and leave, but she said she’d try to stay within that range.
I then spent 3.5 hours with her putting the kitchen together — planning, looking, considering, and so on. I was only interested in the shapes and appliances. We ended up at 18,000 without granite. Deducting the appliances that I supposedly got for free and so on, we ended up at 12,000 if I decided today and within a limited time, and so on. Right then, I made it clear to her that I wasn’t signing anything today, but would come back with my partner for colors and details when the price was somewhat reasonable and not so unrealistic. “Yes, but with the high-quality fronts that are coated multiple times and all the rest, it’s expensive, blah blah blah” (I stopped listening at some point).
I didn’t care — this is simply the only kitchen I like, and my budget is fixed because there’s no magical money tree. After I stayed absolutely firm, and her boss came by twice during that time and she even went for a consultation with him, we ended up at 9,000. That worked well; my original budget was 10,000, and I obviously knew there would be no granite for that. After 4 hours, she was visibly exhausted, and I had eaten cake and had a good drink. She said I should come back soon because the offer would only last a few more days, and so on. Yeah, yeah, I know, but okay, let’s play along.
The next day I went back with two women. I should mention here that I don’t care much about the kitchen itself — it only has to look good to me when I’m in it; the rest doesn’t matter. As expected, the fridge I had chosen was too small, the sink needed an extra prep bowl, the dishwasher required some extra functions, different color, different countertop, an oven upgrade, and a range hood made of pure black glass. Oh well, fine by me, the look and layout remained the same. At one point, the salesperson refused to include all the chosen items because “the budget is way exceeded.” I didn’t care — the ladies had decided, so just do it or we would leave.
After another 3 hours, the most expensive sink in the showroom, and lots of extras, we had everything set. She started calculating again and came up with a price of over 22,000 instead of the previous 18,000. I told her straight that I wasn’t interested in yesterday’s back-and-forth again and that we could save ourselves that. “The changes add up to more than 4,000 extra, which is well beyond what you wanted to spend.” Nice try, and it was good that I had nothing else planned that day. “We already discussed that price yesterday; today is just about the details, but now that’s clear, so let’s finalize this.” Naturally, for 20 minutes she went on about live and let live and why it’s not possible and so forth. I leaned back calmly, let her talk, and thought about dinner.
Then I proposed a compromise: I wasn’t willing to pay more, but since the two women had really gone wild on the upgrades, they could each chip in a hundred euros, so we’d end up at 9,200. The usual again — she had to ask the boss, who came by and spoke with us very politely. I looked him straight in the eye, draped my jacket over my arm, and said I’d like to sign now. He realized that we would have walked away otherwise and printed everything out.
Lo and behold, we went from over 22,000 down to 9,200, including delivery, installation, a 5-year warranty, and a free check-up after 12 months to adjust doors and similar things. I think that was fairly reasonable, or at least something I could live with. Funny enough, the two women stayed completely out of the price negotiation and kept referring back to me. If either of them had given in, hesitated, or gushed about the “great kitchen,” my bargaining position would have been lost. Good thing I had started looking 9 months before the house completion so I wasn’t in a hurry and would have just gone home if it hadn’t gone the way I wanted. The salesperson knew that too, basically saying, “I don’t HAVE to sell the kitchen today.”
I’m sure they still made a good profit, which is fine — I just don’t have to make anyone rich...
Yes, that’s how it is... I’ve mentioned this before, but for the two kitchens I have purchased so far, I would have had to pay over 10,000 according to the price list, etc.
In the end, both kitchens cost about 3,300 each... you just have to be firm and have the kitchen designed smartly. Having a kitchen salesperson who knows their craft is definitely an advantage... many just put cabinets together without really understanding what they are doing or where you can save money...
In the end, both kitchens cost about 3,300 each... you just have to be firm and have the kitchen designed smartly. Having a kitchen salesperson who knows their craft is definitely an advantage... many just put cabinets together without really understanding what they are doing or where you can save money...
Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello,
Why?
That is exactly what buyers here in this country want ...
Regards, BauexperteSorry, but in my opinion, that’s nonsense. The “being stingy is cool” mentality is entirely the retail sector’s own doing. The whole issue with discounts has been drilled into consumers to the point where they now always feel like they have to negotiate, or else they’re being taken advantage of.
When I see furniture brands being relabeled through buying groups or attempts to conceal the actual manufacturer, it really makes me feel sick. Why can’t retailers just be upfront with honest pricing and get rid of these fake list prices? Then customers wouldn’t always feel cheated and ask for “discounts.”
Customers are like children; they simply copy what is shown to them.
B
Bauexperte30 Jan 2014 11:59Hello,
I have spent a long time thinking about this issue and have yet to reach any logical conclusion about where this mentality—always wanting everything cheaper—actually began. The possibilities are many and date back far earlier than that marketing campaign on the sixth planet of the solar system. By the way, there are many areas in retail where you would cry if you saw the achievable profit margins.
The next stage has been the ongoing trend for several years to set up companies in the Netherlands (the latest example being Fiat) to stabilize prices, save taxes, and appease shareholders. In this model, only one party profits—the speculator. This development is insidious—because there is no manufacturing industry behind it to secure jobs—and I am therefore very curious what surprises retirement at 63 will actually bring us.
Regards, Bauexperte
Elektro1 schrieb:No need to apologize, you have a right to your own opinion.
Sorry, but in my opinion, that’s nonsense.
Elektro1 schrieb:That’s not quite correct when abstracted like that. First of all, this unfortunate slogan was created by a large electronics retailer as a reaction to an existing attitude among consumers—that it’s trendier to buy products made in China rather than supporting the domestic economy. They employ legions of analysts. This electronics chain realized too late what they had started. The only consolation for me is that they ended up shooting themselves in the foot.
The "being cheap is cool" mentality is entirely the retail industry’s own fault. The whole topic of discounts has been drilled into end consumers to the point where they basically expect to negotiate or else they feel they’re being taken advantage of.
I have spent a long time thinking about this issue and have yet to reach any logical conclusion about where this mentality—always wanting everything cheaper—actually began. The possibilities are many and date back far earlier than that marketing campaign on the sixth planet of the solar system. By the way, there are many areas in retail where you would cry if you saw the achievable profit margins.
The next stage has been the ongoing trend for several years to set up companies in the Netherlands (the latest example being Fiat) to stabilize prices, save taxes, and appease shareholders. In this model, only one party profits—the speculator. This development is insidious—because there is no manufacturing industry behind it to secure jobs—and I am therefore very curious what surprises retirement at 63 will actually bring us.
Elektro1 schrieb:That has a lot to do with individual relationships between manufacturers, large buyers, and end customers and is really nothing new. Staying in the realm of housebuilding, Tecalor® comes to mind. Tecalor® is a subsidiary of Stiebel Eltron® and was created solely to satisfy the wholesale trade.
When I already see furniture brands relabeled through purchasing cooperatives or attempts to disguise the actual manufacturer, it really makes me sick. Why can’t retailers just offer honest prices and get rid of these fake list prices?
Elektro1 schrieb:Apparently, bargaining is human nature; the East has shown us this from ancient times. Perhaps the cause of current social behavior patterns lies in the increasing cultural mixing in Germany. From my point of view, it’s not so much about the question of discounts, but rather the expectation regarding the size of reductions and the preemptive attitude that the service provider is trying to cheat every customer in front of them. This, by the way—reduced to basics—is the founding idea of every low-cost provider in the highly competitive homebuilding market and, in my opinion, given societal demands for affordable housing, perfectly legitimate. Ruskin put it very well.
Then customers wouldn’t feel cheated all the time and wouldn’t ask for "discounts."
Elektro1 schrieb:That is the “simple” truth, and although I personally see “simple” mostly as practical where it makes sense, it is often only half the truth.
The customer is like a small child and copies what they see.
Regards, Bauexperte
To get back to the main topic: we ultimately went with an IKEA kitchen.
Before that, we consulted with five different furniture and kitchen stores.
We probably saw around 20 dream kitchens – the cheapest one would have cost us 15,400€ (about $16,700).
At IKEA, we found a (already quite perfect) kitchen for 11,300€ (about $12,200) and were happy with it.
We also had them install it for us, and I would definitely do that again!
Before that, we consulted with five different furniture and kitchen stores.
We probably saw around 20 dream kitchens – the cheapest one would have cost us 15,400€ (about $16,700).
At IKEA, we found a (already quite perfect) kitchen for 11,300€ (about $12,200) and were happy with it.
We also had them install it for us, and I would definitely do that again!
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