ᐅ Floor Plan for a Multi-Generational Home Conversion of an Old Barn
Created on: 9 Feb 2021 21:56
D
derclaus
Hello dear forum members,
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
ypg schrieb:
There are three children’s rooms plus a guest room/office. The rooms upstairs aren’t actually that narrow and long—the left one is about 2.99 meters (9.8 feet), and if you build the knee wall at a reasonable height, the room shortens and doesn’t feel so long anymore. The supporting beams can remain visible from the ground floor.
I currently have a bathroom with natural light and a bedroom with natural light on the ground floor. I have a free room at the back used as a utility room... I’m now planning to enlarge the living room a bit, expand the pantry (under the stairs), and try to get natural light into the guest WC as well. It’s going well 🙂 Wow, I’m really looking forward to this. And apologies that I can’t respond very quickly this weekend—the kids have me completely occupied! Also, I can’t always speak directly with the structural engineer or engineer when there’s a pending question.
One more thing—I hope I explained this clearly:
For the ground floor, it was more important to me to have a bathroom with a window rather than the guest WC. But I completely understand if the bathroom window just isn’t feasible. There’s no need to keep trying endlessly—if any of the experts present just have a strong gut feeling that it won’t work, I trust that a lot!
Upstairs, three children’s bedrooms and a bathroom with a window are “desired.” Having a potential office/guest room would be nice but is not a top priority. I don’t quite understand the idea of lighting through a double casement window upstairs (for example, if a continuous dormer on the south side is used to light the rooms), but I look forward to being surprised and am already starting to think about it.
I can’t write this all the time, but the support here has been truly fantastic. For months, I’ve been moving the rooms back and forth, and it never felt quite right. Not entirely bad, but somehow not harmonious. It was just necessary to clear my head and wipe the slate clean of everything so far. That has already been more than successful—thank you very much!
icandoit schrieb:
Looking at the cross-section, you can extend a shed dormer up to the knee wall. The top edge is at 2.8m (9 ft 2 in). The purlins would then rest on the partition walls. Whether this is sufficient to carry the additional loads from converting the attic into living space? A structural engineer definitely needs to assess this.
The shed dormer will definitely help in reinforcing the roof.
You have the bedroom downstairs, so you could eliminate a room on the upper floor.
That way the rooms will be wider and you won’t need as much depth.
Then the hallway with the staircase can move toward the south. Having the staircase placed sideways is not a good solution.
Is the interior construction planned to be solid, like calcium silicate blocks? Concrete for the ceiling?
@ypg I like the idea of a skylight in front of the knee wall. I would also recommend that above the hallway on the upper floor.
Such a renovation won’t be cheap. Thanks for following up, icandoit.
I am definitely open to rotating the staircase or even trying a different layout (rotating it would be quite wide, not considering the upper floor access, I think). But I also like the current arrangement. I understand that placing it sideways isn’t ideal. Still, it could be a good compromise and looks nice too.
The interior walls downstairs will be masonry. The ceiling is planned in concrete.
manohara schrieb:
Reading into this more deeply is too time-consuming for me right now, but I want to wish you all the best and am glad to see projects like this that make use of existing buildings to create beautiful living spaces.
I find that alone valuable and enriching for everyone 🙂Thanks for the post and the insight into your project!
For us, besides making use of the existing structure, it is also important to live with the extended family under one roof. Currently, there are nine of us. But it is starting to get quite tight now. 😱
icandoit schrieb:
Why go through so much effort if the brick facade is going to be removed anyway?
Then just build the wall up to 6 m (20 feet) high and put a roof terrace on top.
Is there a photo showing the entire building from directly south or southwest? Thanks for the inspiration. The brick facade is to be removed from the old wall, but bricks will be used again as a design element. A roof terrace sounds great, but I suspect it might not be entirely feasible. Building a shed dormer "within the family" will work well; it makes a lot of sense for the rooms and considering the roof is being redone. And with 3.5 ha (8.6 acres) of land and our lifestyle, it’s not really necessary.
Attached are some pictures—I didn’t want to overload the topic with too many. The barn is about 30.5 m (100 feet) long and 20.5 m (67 feet) deep. Our renovation takes up not even a quarter of that.
[SOUTHWEST] (left side shows the main house)
[SOUTHEAST] (now showing about 50% of the barn)
[WEST] (also the driveway from the courtyard on this side)
[NORTH] (to give an impression of the main house)
derclaus schrieb:
On the ground floor, it was more important for me to have the bathroom with a window than the guest toilet. But I totally understand if that simply isn’t possible. No point in spending ages trying different options— Haha... The bathroom now has natural daylight thanks to your orientation. But I do have an idea for the guest toilet... for now, I’m just going to enjoy the sunshine.
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