ᐅ Floor Plan for a Multi-Generational Home Conversion of an Old Barn
Created on: 9 Feb 2021 21:56
D
derclaus
Hello dear forum members,
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
ypg schrieb:
The fundamental issue on the upper floor:
Your dashed line, the 2-meter (6.5 feet) line, which corresponds on the other side, shows you about 40 m² (430 sq ft) of space over 2 meters (6.5 feet) high, in the middle of the house (ridge).
If the roof pitch is even shallower (I estimate 38 degrees), then it results in a one- or two-meter (3 to 6.5 feet) strip across the entire width. And that’s without any beams or rafters supporting the roof structure everywhere.
The staircase MUST come out in the middle there; the rooms upstairs only have a standing strip and otherwise are like caves...
You will barely, if at all, have usable or code-compliant living space according to the national building regulations. A second means of escape is just a pipe dream.
Basically, on the south side, you either need several dormers or one long continuous dormer. Then you can fit three kids’ bedrooms there. On the north side would be the bathroom, office, and storage room.
That’s why the main wall separating the stairs from the living area needs to be nearly on the beam, since there is a wall above. That reduces the open living space...
I will revisit the bathroom layout tomorrow... I already have an idea 😉 I don’t quite follow this yet. At least, the ridge of the barn does not run over the apartment; attached is a section and floor plan. The dimensions are not entirely accurate, as the exterior wall has not yet been shifted inward on the drawings. Just to clarify: the apartment, or more precisely the north wall of the apartment, is still in front of the barn ridge, which only reaches its roof peak further north. But maybe I am missing your point...
An office is not necessary on the upper floor. The only thing is that the bathroom unfortunately must have a window and therefore reach the south side. I always thought that three children’s bedrooms and a bathroom would fit well there. With a different staircase, I was considering something like this (see preview image), although I then imagined an office or similar space as well...
I wish you a great weekend and would, of course, be very happy to get further input.
derclaus schrieb:
The ridge beam of the barn does not run above the apartment at least; attached are a section and a floor plan. The dimensions are not entirely accurate because the exterior wall has not yet been drawn set back inward. Just to clarify: the apartment, or rather the north wall of the apartment, is still in front of the ridge beam of the barn, which only reaches its roof peak further north. But maybe I’m not explaining this clearly to you... Ah… yes, okay. I was a bit confused before. So you have space at the top on the north side. However, this is secondary for the staircase and living area since a) the staircase would have to shift too far back (north within the house), and b) no window can be installed there.
We don’t want to make the hallway on the ground floor grandiose but rather want to create nice, spacious, and livable rooms on the ground floor. This means: moving the staircase forward.
All right (regarding the last post).
A quick addition regarding the upper floor. Dormers are possible – I can well imagine a shed dormer running along the entire south side, so that all rooms can benefit from it – although I can’t estimate the costs for this yet.
Have a great weekend and plenty of sunshine!
A quick addition regarding the upper floor. Dormers are possible – I can well imagine a shed dormer running along the entire south side, so that all rooms can benefit from it – although I can’t estimate the costs for this yet.
Have a great weekend and plenty of sunshine!
Looking at the cross-section, you can extend a sloping dormer up to the knee wall. The upper edge is at 2.8 meters (9 feet 2 inches).
The rafters will then rest on the partition walls. Whether this is enough to support the additional loads from converting the attic into living space is uncertain—this definitely requires a structural engineer.
The sloping dormer will certainly help reinforce the roof.
Since you have the bedroom downstairs, you could reduce the number of rooms in the upper floor.
This way, the rooms will be wider, and you won't need as much depth.
Then the hallway with the staircase can be moved to the south side. A staircase placed across the hall is not a good solution.
Will the interior construction be solid, for example, using calcium silicate blocks? Concrete ceilings?
@ypg I like the idea of a skylight in front of the knee wall. I would also recommend this above the hallway on the upper floor.
This kind of renovation will not be inexpensive.
The rafters will then rest on the partition walls. Whether this is enough to support the additional loads from converting the attic into living space is uncertain—this definitely requires a structural engineer.
The sloping dormer will certainly help reinforce the roof.
Since you have the bedroom downstairs, you could reduce the number of rooms in the upper floor.
This way, the rooms will be wider, and you won't need as much depth.
Then the hallway with the staircase can be moved to the south side. A staircase placed across the hall is not a good solution.
Will the interior construction be solid, for example, using calcium silicate blocks? Concrete ceilings?
@ypg I like the idea of a skylight in front of the knee wall. I would also recommend this above the hallway on the upper floor.
This kind of renovation will not be inexpensive.
icandoit schrieb:
You have the bedroom downstairs, so you could reduce the number of rooms upstairs.
That way, the rooms would be wider, and you wouldn’t need as much depth.There are three children's rooms plus a guest room/office. The rooms upstairs aren’t that narrow and long—the left one is nearly 2.99 m (9.8 ft), and if you build the knee wall at a reasonable height, the room shortens and no longer feels so long. The support beams can remain visible from the ground floor. I now have a daylight bathroom and a daylight bedroom on the ground floor. I have a huge room at the back free for a utility room... I’m going to enlarge the living room a bit, expand the pantry (under the stairs), and try to get natural light into the guest toilet as well. It’s going well 🙂
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