ᐅ Floor Plan for a Multi-Generational Home Conversion of an Old Barn
Created on: 9 Feb 2021 21:56
D
derclaus
Hello dear forum members,
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
Thank you for the responses and questions. I will address them as soon as possible today – work and other commitments are limiting my time right now. I need a bit more time for the measurements but should have them completed by this evening. Thank you all for the lively feedback. I really appreciate it.
Thanks again to everyone.
I have gotten to the point of dimensioning the floor plan. Unfortunately, I can’t use the typical colors for the walls, so here is the explanation:
- Walls filled in black with hatching are existing walls that cannot be changed.
- The almost white walls are newly colored.
In the available floor plans, I have only drawn one white wall on the ground floor. This would be the wall that defines the eastern boundary of the available floor plan space. A maximum width of 16 m (52.5 feet), or less if preferred, is acceptable—but that’s not the main issue. I can sort that out with family discussions; 16 m (52.5 feet) is the maximum. 😉
Ground floor
Upper floor
Regarding this support in the upper floor, a note about this picture: the photo was taken from the west, looking into the barn. You can see one of the two pillars and the lateral support that extends from the upper-floor floor up to the ceiling. I’m standing next to the other pillar ("Pfeiler01"). If these supports on the upper floor were built into a wall, and a wall was extended about 3 m (10 feet) along the support from the pillar, a door could also be installed in that wall. However, I haven’t thought that far yet. At the moment, the supports bother me more in relation to the stair placement, because I’m not sure how the stairs should be positioned...
PS: The white walls in the picture will be extended upwards to the ceiling of the upper floor. They are 24.5 cm (9.6 inches) thick. All roof supports will be removed, and the roof itself will be newly constructed. So much for it being a larger project...
I have gotten to the point of dimensioning the floor plan. Unfortunately, I can’t use the typical colors for the walls, so here is the explanation:
- Walls filled in black with hatching are existing walls that cannot be changed.
- The almost white walls are newly colored.
In the available floor plans, I have only drawn one white wall on the ground floor. This would be the wall that defines the eastern boundary of the available floor plan space. A maximum width of 16 m (52.5 feet), or less if preferred, is acceptable—but that’s not the main issue. I can sort that out with family discussions; 16 m (52.5 feet) is the maximum. 😉
Ground floor
Upper floor
Regarding this support in the upper floor, a note about this picture: the photo was taken from the west, looking into the barn. You can see one of the two pillars and the lateral support that extends from the upper-floor floor up to the ceiling. I’m standing next to the other pillar ("Pfeiler01"). If these supports on the upper floor were built into a wall, and a wall was extended about 3 m (10 feet) along the support from the pillar, a door could also be installed in that wall. However, I haven’t thought that far yet. At the moment, the supports bother me more in relation to the stair placement, because I’m not sure how the stairs should be positioned...
PS: The white walls in the picture will be extended upwards to the ceiling of the upper floor. They are 24.5 cm (9.6 inches) thick. All roof supports will be removed, and the roof itself will be newly constructed. So much for it being a larger project...
ypg schrieb:
I can’t make any sense of the last two images. Where is north?I have added a compass to the drawing.
11ant schrieb:
To better understand your project, it would be helpful if you placed your plans in context—that is, don’t limit the drawings to the boundaries of the residential extension, but also include the parts of the barn that remain unchanged. For clarity, it’s also useful to use color-coded illustrations showing the current and planned states together—commonly, gray indicates existing parts, red for new construction, and yellow for demolition.
24.5 cm (10 inches) does not correspond to a standard brick size; it is likely a regional format, probably a traditional measurement from before the metric system was introduced. I hope this is clear. The 24.5 cm (10 inches) refers to the thickness of the interior walls (the white bricks in the picture), not the size of the bricks themselves. Sorry if that was unclear.
ypg schrieb:
Thanks for your entertaining post.
Could you provide measurements for the 21B design?
And the roof pitch is 50 degrees?
The interior photo: what does it show?
Also, do you have enough budget, for example, for dormers? Are they allowed? I could provide measurements for the 21B design if the floor plan I created is not sufficient. Just let me know.
A small input on this: I think the design is quite good, but there are some points I’m unsure about whether they make sense:
- The living room is small to accommodate a guest toilet and storage room behind it. Somehow, I feel the living room should be larger. It doesn’t have to reach all the way to the back wall, but bigger would be nicer. Placing it fully against the wall might be possible, though it could be a bit dark... Maybe large enough so that a straight staircase runs behind it (although then it’s questionable how the supports above would work if you want to access the rooms).
- Furthermore, the space behind the living room seems to be built in a rather awkward or irregular way.
- The bathroom is too small; a bathtub would be nice but is not essential. What I do like is that walking from the hallway to the right leads toward the parents’ area without immediately entering their bedroom. But such corridors also take up space.
Basically, I’m mentally ready to discard everything or at least open to suggestions. Starting with the staircase, which I think can look nice if it is visible from the hallway. Whether it is a staircase with a landing, a spiral, or straight does not matter to me. Any of those can look great...
South schrieb:
Good day,
we seem to have two quite similar projects, and relatively close geographically as well 🙂. However, we are just two households in total on around 420 m² (4,520 sq ft) of living and usable space, and our upper floor was already finished, but we are partially modernizing it. On the ground floor, we are currently working on the new slab; unfortunately, progress is at a standstill due to the weather. Fortunately, only two sections remain – about 1.5 weeks of work left, and then this part will finally be done.
I definitely wish you a lot of success and perseverance. And no nasty surprises 😉
To be more precise, measurements and a north arrow wouldn’t hurt. Is south not on the gable side?
For us, the window lintels facing south and north are relatively low due to the steep roof pitch. That means you can only comfortably look outside while sitting – or if you’re a child. We could replace all the window lintels and have them raised somewhat, which would reduce the problem a bit. However, we will probably decide against this because we have located the dining area, kitchen, and living room on the west gable side. Here, there are two large barn doors, which we are glazing, and the remaining windows have a proper lintel height. On the side with the low windows are the storage room, entrance area, part of the dining room, and part of the living room. I mention this only because it could potentially disrupt the lighting concept or might make a different room layout advisable.
May I ask what budget you are planning for your renovation?Thank you for the encouraging words. They will certainly be needed. Your project sounds great. And it’s true, the lighting concept is very important, especially since we only get light on the ground floor from the south (and a bit from the west), and on the upper floor only through skylights. Not to mention the possibly very dark hallway upstairs if all rooms cover the roof surfaces...
The budget is uncertain. We are doing everything in-house – my father-in-law, who is an engineer and electronics specialist, will manage the construction and is currently calculating costs. We are expecting 300k+ due to a lot of self-work, plus the fact that everything is already connected (e.g., heating and electricity just need to be hooked up to the main house – which is almost up to date).
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