ᐅ Floor Plan for a Multi-Generational Home Conversion of an Old Barn
Created on: 9 Feb 2021 21:56
D
derclaus
Hello dear forum members,
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
derclaus schrieb:
Regarding the pillar and the beam: the beam is necessary due to the extreme wind loads on the building. The north wind exerted so much pressure on the roof that, for example, the south wall is now completely tilted. Therefore, it needs to be rebuilt (and will be set back about 60cm (24 inches) inward to increase the height of the south side). At the beginning of this paragraph, I briefly thought that a wind brace was being mentioned here, but as I read on, I became completely confused (if I understood anything at all). With unclear terminology and sometimes textual—sometimes visual—confusion about directions, you manage, in a way almost as impressive as @Erlkönig, to make me feel too old to follow the explanations—similar to fast-cut flickering video clips that apparently are no longer targeted at my age group of “significantly over 29.” For this reason, I will probably withdraw from this thread as well.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
At the beginning of this paragraph, I briefly thought it was about a wind brace, but as I read on, I quickly got lost (if I understood anything at all). With unclear terminology and confusing directions, both in text and images, you manage in a similarly impressive way as @Erlkönig to make me feel too old to follow the explanations—much like in fast-cut flickering video clips that apparently no longer target my age group "clearly over 29." I will therefore probably drop out of this thread as well. Interestingly, I think I understand what the original poster means. This proves that communication at eye level (here between two laypersons) is easier 🙂.
In the pictures, it shows that the roof is not fully self-supporting; instead, there are support beams going from the floor up to the roof. But not just a simple straight beam (like we use), there are additional "angled beams" attached to the main beam toward the roof. These angled beams not only carry loads from above (roof ridge), but also handle wind loads (on the roof surface from the side) and so must remain as they are.
Regarding the wall, it appears to be leaning. To fix this, it is being rebuilt. Here I was/is uncertain whether the original poster means the original wall will be torn down. Based on the described height difference, I assume she means that at least an internal new wall is being added. This keeps the roof height the same, but the wall height changes, and the original footprint of 30 x 18 meters (98 x 59 feet) becomes 30 x 17.4 meters (98 x 57 feet) due to the 60cm (2 feet) offset.
Is that correct, derclaus?
ypg schrieb:
I had the impression someone asked how you plan to use the windowless rooms (from what I remember, above the bedroom).
Would you like to share? Thank you for the question. I’m happy to explain and open to inspiration.
The room above the bedroom was intended as a buffer room leading to the barn behind it: for shoes, jackets, and possibly also food storage if no other option is available. Alternatively, there is still the possibility to move the kitchen, currently on the south side, further inside the living/dining area and place a room behind it.
[I would like to put the current ideas, priorities, and information about the floor plans down on paper again and have them reviewed – if anyone feels like it. I would really appreciate it.] I’m doing this now because, in my opinion, the discussion about the “south wall” and “pillars” has led us a bit off track. I cannot elaborate or deepen those issues further. The south wall will be moved and approximately 285cm (9 feet 4 inches) high, and the pillars will stay where they are. Over! :p 😀
Attached are Drafts A and B.
These two drafts, in my view, have the disadvantage of being too complex in layout, the bathroom is too small, and the living room also feels too complicated and small. I also find the area in front of the stairs in Draft A too large – and in particular, the living room in Draft A is too open to the stairs (regarding noise, privacy, etc.). But I actually don’t mind corners, as I like, for example, that the doors to the utility room and the parents’ area are not directly visible from the hallway. Currently, the kitchen is on the south side, which is sunny and nice, but that means the utility room would be the only option for a pantry. That can work, but it’s not very practical.
In my further attempts, the situation is as follows. Attached is Draft 01.
There are two key points with 01: the living room and the parents’ section.
For the living room, I’m unsure whether to extend it all the way to the north wall or perhaps place a straight staircase behind the living room or even move the kitchen away from the window and put a (small) pantry behind it. The problem with this is that the staircase would be very dark (since there will be no light from above). Therefore, I tend to move the kitchen to the back. Or just leave everything as is. Then the couch would be rather at the back, in a somewhat darker spot, but that could work.
As for the parents’ section, the basic idea is fine; the only issue is that the bathroom is too small. A larger one would be better.
If you only look at the parents’ section, I also consider it feasible to enter through a kind of walk-in closet with built-in wardrobes. Then you have the option to go to the bathroom or to the bedroom. If the door to the bedroom is closed, you can move between the bathroom and the closet without disturbing the other sleeper. I don’t find the position of the guest toilet (above the closet) very good here.
That would be Draft 02. The staircase doesn’t matter at this point; I just inserted it randomly. The idea is: why not have a straight staircase in the hallway if, for example, you place a skylight on the upper floor that also brings light into the hallway up there.
And don’t forget: those pesky pillars that run from the ground floor through the upper floor (plus the beam that runs from these pillars at the upper floor towards the back). Attached are the ground floor and upper floor plans. The width on the south side should preferably not exceed 16m (52 feet 6 inches). We should stay within that limit.
Again, the main points:
Ground floor: living/dining room, fireplace, window seat, patio doors, floor-to-ceiling windows in the living room, master bedroom, bathroom, walk-in closet, guest toilet, utility room, a pantry by the kitchen would be nice (but not mandatory).
Upper floor: 3 children’s bedrooms, bathroom – possibly a home office (lowest priority).
General challenge: sunlight only comes in through the south side of the building, south wall approximately 280cm (9 feet 2 inches) high, roof pitch about 45 degrees, there is an option for a window on the free west side, preferably no dormers but only skylights (to reduce costs), two large pillars with a beam each on the upper floor.
Finally, attached are two photos of the current barn. One from outside showing the west and south sides, and one inside taken next to the west pillar.
I know this is a lot to read and understand, but any suggestions or input at this stage are very welcome. Thank you.
11ant schrieb:
At the beginning of this paragraph, I briefly thought that a wind brace was being discussed here, but as I continued reading, I got completely lost (if I understood anything at all). With unclear terminology and alternating between textual and visual directional confusion, you manage it in a similarly impressive way as @Erlkönig, making me feel too old to follow the explanation—much like in fast-cut flickering video clips that apparently no longer target my age group "clearly over 29." I will probably have to disengage from this thread as well. Dear 11ant – this is probably much more due to my communication, which is not "precise enough"...
Erlkönig schrieb:
In the pictures, you can see that the roof is not fully self-supporting, but there are supporting beams running from the floor up to the roof. However, it’s not just a simple straight beam (like we have); there are additional angled beams connected to that beam, extending towards the roof. These angled beams not only carry the load from above (roof ridge) but also handle lateral loads caused by wind on the roof surface, so they must remain as they are.
Regarding the wall, it appears to be crooked. To fix this, it will be rebuilt. Here I was uncertain whether the original wall would be demolished. Based on the described height difference, I assume the intention is to build a new wall inside the existing one. This way, the roof height stays the same, but the wall height changes, and the footprint changes from 30 x 18 meters (98 x 59 feet) to approximately 30 x 17.4 meters (98 x 57 feet) with a 60cm (24 inch) setback.
Correct, derclaus? Very good and almost entirely correct. Wonderful.
The wall will indeed be moved inward as you described, which gains ceiling height but slightly reduces the floor area. It is important to note that for this construction, we are not allowed to use the full 30 meters (98 feet) on the south side; it should be limited to 16 meters (52 feet).
Regarding the pillars and support beams, it’s only like this (see also the drawing): the supporting beams towards the roof can be removed. They face south and don’t affect the northern wind. The thick support beam running from the pillar towards the north remains. Both pillars have such a support beam. Note: if you look closely at the picture, there are even two more support pillars from the beams extending east and west. I hadn’t mentioned these because they will be removed as well. What is shown in green will stay as is. I hope the picture clarifies everything…
Thanks again for your input. 🙂
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