ᐅ Sound Insulation According to VDI Guideline 4100 & DIN 4109 in Prefabricated House Construction
Created on: 3 May 2020 21:30
R
rainario1
Hello everyone,
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
I have had exactly the same thought. As a layperson, you can read a lot and ask questions in forums like this – yet there are always details that could have been done much better with little effort. Apparently, you can't gain anything from soundproofing the pipes, so it wasn’t an issue for us either.
Snowy36 schrieb:
we were looked at strangelyWell, running the wastewater pipe from above through the dining room is quite unusual when aiming for a structurally sound design.Snowy36 schrieb:
the toilet is mounted on the wall to the children's roomSee above. A planner ("architect") normally learns in their basic studies that such things are generally not acceptable. But this is how things develop when floor plan creation increasingly becomes amateur work.The plumbing, heating and sanitation industry provides excellent technical literature and guidelines on this topic, so these issues should no longer occur—or only at the explicit request of the client—if professionals understand their craft.
MayrCh schrieb:
See above. A planner ("architect") usually learns during their basic studies that things like this are generally not acceptable. But this is how things develop when floor plan creation increasingly becomes amateur work.There are two explanations for this situation in one paragraph: 1. The client considers the architect to be a waste of money and thinks, “I can handle the floor plan myself”; 2. It stops there because then, in the role of the design builder’s draftsman, a second opinion is sought, who, at the request of their employer, has no opinion (and would not be qualified to have one). The result:MayrCh schrieb:
Well, running a wastewater pipe from above through the dining room is rather unusual for a structurally sound planning approach.The wastewater pipe is a consequence of the fact that the client liked the floor plan of one Pinterest house for the upper floor different from the one for the ground floor.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Just to share: we met with the architect — we didn’t do any drawings ourselves. But this is how it went: Client:
“I would prefer the bedroom not to be located directly facing south in full sunlight and next to a children’s room. Would it be possible to switch the bedroom and bathroom?” Architect: Yes.
There was no “That’s bad because the wastewater pipes can’t go through the dining room” or “If the pipes have to go through the dining room, then we’ll insulate them properly...”
Nothing like that, and we even told X how important soundproofing is to us! By the way, with proper casing, it’s not a problem...
You only really hear the shower running.
And about the toilet: that was the work of a draftsman who should be severely criticized. Then there’s a 12cm (5 inches) wall... thanks a lot... it could have been 24cm (10 inches) for just 20 euros more...
“I would prefer the bedroom not to be located directly facing south in full sunlight and next to a children’s room. Would it be possible to switch the bedroom and bathroom?” Architect: Yes.
There was no “That’s bad because the wastewater pipes can’t go through the dining room” or “If the pipes have to go through the dining room, then we’ll insulate them properly...”
Nothing like that, and we even told X how important soundproofing is to us! By the way, with proper casing, it’s not a problem...
You only really hear the shower running.
And about the toilet: that was the work of a draftsman who should be severely criticized. Then there’s a 12cm (5 inches) wall... thanks a lot... it could have been 24cm (10 inches) for just 20 euros more...
@Snowy36
For example, in our case, the toilet flush is located right next to the guest room, so that was something that could have definitely been addressed.
Schwörerhaus uses insulated pipes and drainpipes, but probably not for the flush system. However, as you said, where else could the guest room have been placed? It’s not like there’s 200m² (2,150 sq ft) on a single level.
What also annoys me is that the wardrobe for four people is way too small.
I discovered this forum way too late; many issues discussed here daily regarding floor plans really hit the mark.
Everything works fine, but perhaps more could have been done.
For example, in our case, the toilet flush is located right next to the guest room, so that was something that could have definitely been addressed.
Schwörerhaus uses insulated pipes and drainpipes, but probably not for the flush system. However, as you said, where else could the guest room have been placed? It’s not like there’s 200m² (2,150 sq ft) on a single level.
What also annoys me is that the wardrobe for four people is way too small.
I discovered this forum way too late; many issues discussed here daily regarding floor plans really hit the mark.
Everything works fine, but perhaps more could have been done.
R
rainario113 May 2020 00:23MayrCh schrieb:
No. The first sentence of the justification states:
"The required sound insulation for the construction of semi-detached houses must be determined by interpreting the contract."
Later it notes:
"Guidance can be taken from the standards concerning sound insulation levels II and III of VDI Guideline 4100 from 1994 or the Supplement 2 to DIN 4109."
The 25-year-old VDI 4100:1994 is of course no longer valid and does not represent the current state of the art. The 4100 was revised in 2007 and 2012; the 2007 version was withdrawn but was still applied for several years.
Good luck. You won’t get this from a technical college builder. Many solid construction builders would likely refuse or charge significant extra costs here. Thanks for the clarification regarding the BGH ruling.
In the wiki it comes across somewhat more “in favor of the client” I think, which surprised me as well.
It’s difficult for the client to prove what exactly is “required” if nothing specific was agreed upon. The measurable target performance often remains unclear in reality for non-experts. And that unsettles me.
Thanks for the note that sound insulation level III involves extreme additional effort, even in solid construction (!). As a layperson, that latter point is not obvious to me.
My general contractor estimates the extra cost for level II at more than 20,000 euros (rough estimate). Whether that is realistic is hard for me to gauge. At first glance, that seemed to contradict the BGH ruling and brought me here to the forum.
To determine the target, I—as a “friend of many words” (I like the euphemism, and it fits)—asked the general contractor for details of the party wall and… indeed received a prompt reply.
I won’t post the PDF here, but I will summarize the construction from inside to outside (on one side of the semi-detached house):
1. 12.5mm (½ inch) diamond-class gypsum plasterboard (GKFi)
2. Vapor barrier
3. 15mm (⅝ inch) OSB panel
4. 110mm (4.3 inches) mineral wool insulation inside a 110/60mm (4.3/2.4 inch) wooden stud frame (spacing <625mm (25 inches))
5. 2 layers of 18mm (¾ inch) gypsum wallboard (GKFi) each
6. 50mm (2 inch) air cavity up to the boundary of the semi-detached house
ops: Air?! (Possibly the so-called drum effect threatens, wonders the layperson…)
Point 6 is replaced by mineral wool insulation at the edge area (meaning only near the exterior walls adjacent to the party wall).
It’s clear to me that air does not insulate well.
But does that mean replacing all air cavities with mineral wool?
Or something with “more mass”? EPS or similar?
Other than material thicknesses, very little is measurable here. Which sound insulation level this achieves remains unclear to me, and as a layperson I find it difficult to assess the soundproofing performance.
I have stirred up enough dust; now it’s time for a bit more “depth”… which unfortunately I cannot provide myself as a layperson. Maybe we’re just scratching the surface now—or perhaps going deeper soon?
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