ᐅ Sound Insulation According to VDI Guideline 4100 & DIN 4109 in Prefabricated House Construction
Created on: 3 May 2020 21:30
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rainario1
Hello everyone,
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
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rainario19 May 2020 23:49nordanney schrieb:
What does this mean? I’m always happy when my clients build certified houses, but I’m not familiar with the details. The “sociocultural functional quality” is one of the so-called focus areas of certification and, in the case of DGNB, consists of several parts, such as:
- thermal comfort
- indoor air quality
- visual comfort (daylight availability, color rendering, solar exposure)
- user influence (on the indoor climate: ventilation and ease of control)
- outdoor space qualities
- sense of security and protection against intrusion
etc.
In other certifications or approaches, sound insulation is included in this focus area.
With DGNB, however, sound insulation is classified under the focus area “technical functional quality.”
If you have further questions about specific focus areas, it is best to contact DGNB directly, as it is—as mentioned—a comprehensive reference... but I find it interesting (as a layperson)—although it is probably relatively irrelevant for my project :-/ ...as described above.
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rainario110 May 2020 00:07Snowy36 schrieb:
My girlfriend has a Rensch house, which I find better than our unfilled brick house... so there are some differences there...
Dimensions are great, go for calcium silicate blocks or filled Poroton. Warning, this is going to get a bit unusual:
Would it be conceivable to “upgrade” an interior wall in a particularly “sensitive area,” such as the adjoining living rooms, by using calcium silicate blocks instead of Knauf Diamant boards?
Between the living rooms, there are two walls (one in each semi-detached house) plus the shared party wall, but only “just in case”: is this feasible or just plain nonsense?
Of course, you lose a bit of living space because the wall becomes thicker, but apart from that?
The noise or sound level of my own child is actually not much of an issue for me personally (even while working from home); frankly, if I couldn’t deal with that, I shouldn’t have had a child (if necessary, I just wear headphones for Skype calls).
That might change during puberty, but there is at least a cellar open toward the west that can serve as a “retreat.”
What is much more important to me personally is the “decoupling” from the neighbor. I don’t want to bother them (after all, they pay rent!) and in the worst case, I don’t want to end up like my father, who is disturbed by the neighbor’s “stupid vibrating plate” in his basement or by the neighbor running quickly down the stairs... God knows how often both happen.
I’m glad there is some interest in this forum regarding soundproofing, standards, and technical requirements.
Who knows who else will find this thread and be happy that we have already had an in-depth discussion on the topic.
One important point I haven’t researched yet: the exact construction of the party wall (I don’t want to drive the provider completely crazy), they probably need a short break first.
tomtom79 schrieb:
Well, when the kids are running around on the upper floor, you can hear it rattling downstairs. I expected a bit more from one of the top manufacturers. Luckily, we’re not too sensitive, but it’s noticeable.
We also have KfW 70, which means 34cm (13 inches) thick walls—I think currently only the 40cm (16 inches) walls are available.
We can also hear low-frequency sounds inside the house; for example, when a city bus drives by, you can clearly hear the humming. Luckily, that only happens about every 30 minutes, but starting at 6 a.m., I wake up from it while my wife doesn’t.Thanks! Of course, a bus is an intrusive noise source. In KfW 55, the walls are 32cm (13 inches) thick. KfW 40 didn’t prove cost-effective, although noise insulation wasn’t a factor in our decision back then. However, we do have a "soundproof ceiling" and underfloor heating.
I’ve only been able to walk through the built house once so far; the upper and attic floors already had the concrete screed panels installed—they feel very solid and weigh around 900 kilograms (2,000 lbs) each on average. I jumped on them a bit and didn’t notice any vibrations. But of course, everyday life will show how it really performs.
So far, we have chosen standard doors from Prüm (except in the utility room, where we have sound insulation class 3 doors and soundproof walls) and are considering replacing one or two doors with sound insulation class 2. Of course, that won’t help if the noise is coming through the walls.
Nummer12 schrieb:
Concrete screed panelsMake sure the panels don’t touch each other and that no debris gets between them. In our upstairs hallway, they cracked. One worker removed the baseboards and cut along the wall with a saw; since then, no issues. We also have underfloor heating with a controlled ventilation system; in this case, one with moisture recovery is recommended.The service at Schwörerhaus is excellent. Many could take a page from their book.
If you have any questions, feel free to send a private message.
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nordanney10 May 2020 10:00rainario1 schrieb:
Personally, I find the "separation" from the neighbor much more important.The perfect solution for you. Build a detached house, and you won’t have to worry unnecessarily anymore.Similar topics