ᐅ Sound Insulation According to VDI Guideline 4100 & DIN 4109 in Prefabricated House Construction
Created on: 3 May 2020 21:30
R
rainario1
Hello everyone,
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
R
rainario15 May 2020 20:54Thank you for your opinions and contributions, especially for the detailed message from MayrCh.
The standard builder did not want to agree to this in the contract... as mentioned, there was talk of "the possibility of achieving improved sound insulation within the building through additional measures" (diamond board and sound-decoupled ceiling). So, without my own architect.
No detailed information was given regarding sound insulation of the party wall between neighbors. Fire resistance rating F 90 B.
Since two semi-detached houses are being built (meaning two walls "next to each other" with the party wall between them), this was considered "in any case sufficiently soundproof." But in the end, it’s all sound and smoke, and then it’s too late, which is why I insist on this so much.
Unfortunately, as a layperson, I really can’t assess the competence of the planners, so the approach with an acoustic consultant could make sense. An extra 5000 euros (about 5500 USD) won’t break the bank. Interesting point!
I am still looking for someone who has done something like this themselves:
Optimizing timber frame construction with an external acoustic consultant (if so, who, etc.)?
Has anyone been "crazy" enough to do this? Or is it possibly completely over the top?
I want to make sure that in everyday life, there will be no "teeth grinding" at the end.
After all, I am likely (optimistically) going to live there for another 30 to 50 years.
Sound perception is certainly subjective, so I want to ensure measurably good results. That’s not so easy with prefabricated houses and timber frame construction, is it?
My father lives in a semi-detached house built with solid construction, and there were major mistakes made regarding sound insulation that can hardly be fixed now (as you have also written), apparently because a shared basement slab or walls built directly adjacent were used... (however that happened).
In the end, alongside professional planning, correct execution is also important... we agree on that... which again means that someone must oversee the proper implementation of the correct planning during or preferably throughout the construction phase ("my" acoustic consultant).
Will the prefabricated house manufacturer even cooperate with that?
If anyone wanted to be mean, they might say:
Then just build a solid house to begin with, and that’s it.
PS: Regarding compliance with 4100 SST II, the Federal Court of Justice (BGH) has, according to Wikipedia, also ruled on condominiums:
With another landmark decision, the Federal Court of Justice extended this case law to condominiums (Federal Court of Justice, judgment of June 4, 2009 – VII ZR 54/07). Analogous to semi-detached houses, sound insulation levels II and III of VDI Guideline 4100 or Appendix 2 to DIN 4109 can be regarded as generally accepted standards of technology for an apartment that is to meet usual quality and comfort standards. The court makes clear that merely referencing DIN 4109 in the performance specification is not sufficient to effectively agree upon it as the contractually required sound insulation. Rather, any contractor who wishes to deviate from the usual quality and comfort standards for apartments must additionally inform the buyer sufficiently about the consequences of basic sound insulation construction for the later living quality.[7]
I’m surprised I can’t find more about this elsewhere. It must be a more common topic (like "poor workmanship in construction").
The standard builder did not want to agree to this in the contract... as mentioned, there was talk of "the possibility of achieving improved sound insulation within the building through additional measures" (diamond board and sound-decoupled ceiling). So, without my own architect.
No detailed information was given regarding sound insulation of the party wall between neighbors. Fire resistance rating F 90 B.
Since two semi-detached houses are being built (meaning two walls "next to each other" with the party wall between them), this was considered "in any case sufficiently soundproof." But in the end, it’s all sound and smoke, and then it’s too late, which is why I insist on this so much.
Unfortunately, as a layperson, I really can’t assess the competence of the planners, so the approach with an acoustic consultant could make sense. An extra 5000 euros (about 5500 USD) won’t break the bank. Interesting point!
I am still looking for someone who has done something like this themselves:
Optimizing timber frame construction with an external acoustic consultant (if so, who, etc.)?
Has anyone been "crazy" enough to do this? Or is it possibly completely over the top?
I want to make sure that in everyday life, there will be no "teeth grinding" at the end.
After all, I am likely (optimistically) going to live there for another 30 to 50 years.
Sound perception is certainly subjective, so I want to ensure measurably good results. That’s not so easy with prefabricated houses and timber frame construction, is it?
My father lives in a semi-detached house built with solid construction, and there were major mistakes made regarding sound insulation that can hardly be fixed now (as you have also written), apparently because a shared basement slab or walls built directly adjacent were used... (however that happened).
In the end, alongside professional planning, correct execution is also important... we agree on that... which again means that someone must oversee the proper implementation of the correct planning during or preferably throughout the construction phase ("my" acoustic consultant).
Will the prefabricated house manufacturer even cooperate with that?
If anyone wanted to be mean, they might say:
Then just build a solid house to begin with, and that’s it.
PS: Regarding compliance with 4100 SST II, the Federal Court of Justice (BGH) has, according to Wikipedia, also ruled on condominiums:
With another landmark decision, the Federal Court of Justice extended this case law to condominiums (Federal Court of Justice, judgment of June 4, 2009 – VII ZR 54/07). Analogous to semi-detached houses, sound insulation levels II and III of VDI Guideline 4100 or Appendix 2 to DIN 4109 can be regarded as generally accepted standards of technology for an apartment that is to meet usual quality and comfort standards. The court makes clear that merely referencing DIN 4109 in the performance specification is not sufficient to effectively agree upon it as the contractually required sound insulation. Rather, any contractor who wishes to deviate from the usual quality and comfort standards for apartments must additionally inform the buyer sufficiently about the consequences of basic sound insulation construction for the later living quality.[7]
I’m surprised I can’t find more about this elsewhere. It must be a more common topic (like "poor workmanship in construction").
N
nordanney5 May 2020 21:00rainario1 schrieb:
I’m surprised that I can hardly find any information about this elsewhere.Reason: Hardly anyone thinks about these issues in depth. Noise topics rarely come up in the single-family home sector (except near highways, railways, or airports). 99% of houses meet the residents' expectations without requiring major changes. That’s why your typical off-the-shelf manufacturer is already annoyed.
R
rainario15 May 2020 21:12Oh, I think the manufacturer responded quite well. I was probably annoying at times, but after all, this is an investment for life.
For me, a reasonable level of sound insulation is part of comfortable living. The standards and rulings from the Federal Court of Justice (BGH) even require this.
Therefore, I am still trying to resolve the apparent conflict between timber frame construction and sound insulation according to 4100 SST II or even 4100 SST III.
Maybe it’s a bit meticulous, but I find it important. And later on, I want to be proud to say: look, timber frame can also provide sound insulation. The question is certainly at what cost... but let’s get back to the questions above.
For me, a reasonable level of sound insulation is part of comfortable living. The standards and rulings from the Federal Court of Justice (BGH) even require this.
Therefore, I am still trying to resolve the apparent conflict between timber frame construction and sound insulation according to 4100 SST II or even 4100 SST III.
Maybe it’s a bit meticulous, but I find it important. And later on, I want to be proud to say: look, timber frame can also provide sound insulation. The question is certainly at what cost... but let’s get back to the questions above.
rainario1 schrieb:
No detailed information on the neighboring partition wall regarding sound insulation. Fire resistance class F 90 B.Material? I assume it’s not going to be a timber stud wall, but rather Poroton or sand-lime brick. Anything else would be unusual.rainario1 schrieb:
I’m still looking for someone who has done something like this themselves:
timber frame construction optimized with an external acoustic engineer (if so, with whom, etc.)?rainario1 schrieb:
Does the prefabricated house manufacturer even cooperate with that?When I was still working in the industry, I once supported a multi-family and townhouse timber construction project, mainly during the planning phase. However, that was on the developer side in cooperation with the architects; I would seriously doubt that you would get an external specialist involved in the floor plan, production, execution, and shop drawing planning through a standard builder. You can have someone accompany the builder, but then you have limited options to identify and influence the sloppy work that is often done in the factory.
rainario1 schrieb:
since apparently a shared basement slab or adjacent construction was usedA continuous construction joint is absolutely essential. From the top of the foundation to the roof covering.rainario1 schrieb:
then just build a solid house and that’s thatThen I’ll ask the other way round: where do you see the advantages of a detached house in timber frame construction?R
rainario18 May 2020 08:36MayrCh schrieb:
Then I’ll ask the other way around: where do you see the advantages of a timber frame detached house?I wouldn’t want to go into that in detail here (among other things, the ability to meet the KfW40 standard almost right away).
So you share my concern that an external party can easily intervene or is allowed to intervene with the prefab manufacturer.
However, I also came across something else: a DGNB certificate for sustainable building. It also includes criteria for sound insulation, and the manufacturer is a member of the DGNB. According to this, an auditor would have to cooperate with the manufacturer. This certificate is available in three levels (Gold, Silver, Bronze… like in the Youth Olympic Games).
Has anyone gained experience with this?
N
nordanney8 May 2020 09:12You can forget about DGNB certifications for private single-family homes (they mainly focus on sustainability). Besides additional costs, there is no real benefit. In the commercial sector (office buildings, logistics, etc.), they are very interesting.
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