ᐅ Sound Insulation According to VDI Guideline 4100 & DIN 4109 in Prefabricated House Construction
Created on: 3 May 2020 21:30
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rainario1
Hello everyone,
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
I wasn’t able to find much or any information about the technical standards for sound insulation from prefab house manufacturers (timber frame construction) on their websites or in their building specifications. Neither regarding sound insulation against external noise (winds, traffic, etc. according to DIN 4109) nor sound insulation against neighboring buildings (where the stricter VDI 4100 standard should possibly apply).
Rhetorical question: Why is that?
...I’m starting to guess: I fear that the relatively demanding sound insulation levels II or even III of the VDI 4100 guideline can only be achieved with disproportionately high additional effort (and correspondingly higher costs)?
On the other hand, I found this in the wiki:
In a landmark ruling in 2007 concerning semi-detached houses, the Federal Court of Justice established that sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI guideline 4100, or the enhanced sound insulation according to Supplement 2 of DIN 4109, are to be regarded as generally accepted state-of-the-art standards, whereas level I or the DIN 4109 standard alone is not. (Federal Court of Justice, ruling from June 14, 2007 – VII ZR 45/06).[6]
The specification agreement did not have to explicitly mention the expected sound insulation, so sound insulation exceeding the previous DIN criteria becomes a normal part of the construction contract, provided it can be executed according to the generally accepted state-of-the-art standards. Uncertainties regarding the generally accepted standards were resolved by later Federal Court of Justice decisions, making high-quality sound insulation the default assumption in new builds. (Source: Wikipedia)
There are additional rulings pointing in the same direction.
I want to build two semi-detached houses to KfW40 standard using timber frame construction.
1. These should then be constructed “at least according to VDI 4100 SIL II or Supplement 2 of DIN 4109 without further mention in the building specifications,” right? That would be great!
But I don’t want to be that naive... I can’t find anything about this in the building and service specifications, and when I asked the manufacturer, they offered to install additional Knauf Diamant boards partially on the interior walls and a sound-decoupled ceiling (extra cost approximately 5000 euros per semi-detached house).
They say the stairs from the ground floor to the top floor are supposedly decoupled as standard.
I find that interesting.
2. Is there a prefab house manufacturer (timber frame construction) that is generally known to be particularly experienced in the area of sound insulation?
Having someone include a sound insulation certificate according to DeGA Recommendation 103 (2018) in the construction contract would be incredible (and probably just as unrealistic as uneconomical?)...
3. A building acoustician issues such a DeGA sound insulation certificate, but what does that report typically cost?
Does anyone have experience with this?
I won’t post a link to the DeGA Recommendation 103, but they have published quite a bit on this topic.
PS: As you might guess, I’m trying to resolve the apparent contradiction between timber frame construction and excellent soundproofing... maybe other builders face similar challenges.
rainario1 schrieb:
Attention, now it gets interesting:
Would it be conceivable to upgrade the interior walls in particularly "sensitive areas," such as between adjacent living rooms, using calcareous sand-lime brick instead of Knauf Diamant gypsum boards?
There are two walls between the living rooms (one in each semi-detached house) plus the party wall, but only “just in case.” Is this feasible or complete nonsense?
Of course, you would lose some living space because the wall would be thicker, but what else?
The noise or sound level from my own child is personally not a big issue for me (even when working from home), otherwise, I should not have had one at all (to put it bluntly) if I couldn’t handle it (if necessary, I currently use headphones for Skype calls, and that’s it).
That could possibly change during puberty, but there is at least a basement open to the west that can serve as a retreat.
What matters much more to me is decoupling from the neighbor. I don’t want to disturb them (after all, they pay rent!), and in the worst case, I don’t want to end up like my father, who is disturbed by the neighbor’s “annoying vibrating plate compactor” in the basement or when the neighbor quickly runs down the stairs… God knows how often both happen.
I’m glad there is some interest in this forum regarding sound insulation, standards, and technical requirements.
Who knows who else will come across this and be glad that we have already “discussed these topics in depth.”
One important point I have not researched yet: the exact construction of the party wall (I do not want to drive the builder completely crazy), they probably need a little break first. You seem to be a fan of many words, but you contribute little of relevance. What is the "as-built" condition your general contractor (GC) provides, how do they ensure it, what do you envision as the ideal solution, and how do you think it should be guaranteed?
As long as you are unable to define the delivered state of, for example, the party wall or the separating joint, we are just discussing hypotheticals—would, could, should.
rainario1 schrieb:
“discussed in depth” We haven’t even scratched the surface yet.
rainario1 schrieb:
The "socio-cultural functional quality"" is... even if the term might describe a concept, as a coined phrase it’s something you would only come up with in an endowed professorship position. rainario1 schrieb:
Would it be conceivable to "upgrade" with calcium silicate blocks inside, in a particularly "sensitive area" such as between adjoining living rooms, instead of using Knauf Diamant boards?So basically, you want to coat already finished complete walls with calcium silicate blocks in hopes of soundproofing (or to build a free-standing calcium silicate block wall in front of them)? If I ever get tired of my profession, I’ll switch to being a calcium silicate block dealer. Apparently, this stuff has an almost mythical reputation as an all-powerful remedy like homeopathic globules in some circles.
nordanney schrieb:
Perfect solution for you. Build a detached house.Two times three meters (about 10 feet) of building setback is of course the best expansion joint *LOL* MayrCh schrieb:
As long as you’re not able to define the delivered condition, for example of the party wall or the expansion joint, we are just talking a lot about what ifs and could-have-beens here.I think it was Müntefering who called it a bicycle chain. MayrCh schrieb:
We’re barely scratching the surface.One swallow doesn’t make a summer, and watching Quarks twice a year doesn’t replace a physics degree.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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rainario110 May 2020 22:39MayrCh schrieb:
You seem to be a fan of many words, but you hardly provide any relevant content. What “as-built condition” does your general contractor deliver, how do they ensure it, what are you expecting, and how do you think this should be guaranteed?
As long as you are unable to define the delivered condition, for example of the party wall or the joint seal, we are just talking about what-ifs and possibilities.
We haven’t even scratched the surface yet.Hmm, you’re right... important information is still missing, and as I said, I’m aware of that... I have (as I already mentioned... “fan of many words,” yeah yeah... you know) given the manufacturer a break here for now, so as not to constantly keep reopening the issue like a madman.
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rainario110 May 2020 23:09[B]Basically, however, according to my understanding, the general contractor (GC) must deliver SST II according to VDI 4100 (with regard to neighboring buildings) based on a Federal Court ruling. This is definitely a point of contention if it is not explicitly included in the contract from the start.
I doubt that SST II already represents "my personal minimum requirement," as I want to be as safe as possible, as much as reasonably achievable.
That is also the reason for the idea of using "solid globular sand-lime bricks" in sensitive areas.
The verification of the actual condition (as-built) can be provided by a building acoustics expert, I assume.
I doubt that SST II already represents "my personal minimum requirement," as I want to be as safe as possible, as much as reasonably achievable.
That is also the reason for the idea of using "solid globular sand-lime bricks" in sensitive areas.
The verification of the actual condition (as-built) can be provided by a building acoustics expert, I assume.
rainario1 schrieb:
Basically, according to my understanding, the main contractor must deliver according to VDI 4100 SST II (regarding neighboring buildings) as per the Federal Court ruling.No. The first sentence of the reasoning states: “Which level of sound insulation is required for the construction of semi-detached houses must be determined by interpreting the contract.”
Later, the note says:
“Guidance can be taken from the standards for sound insulation levels II and III of the VDI Guideline 4100 from 1994 or Supplement 2 to DIN 4109.”
The 25-year-old VDI 4100:1994 is obviously no longer valid and does not reflect the current state of technology. The 4100 guideline was revised in 2007 and 2012; although the 2007 version was withdrawn, it continued (and still continues) to be applied for several years.
rainario1 schrieb:
Whether SST II already represents "my personal target" I seriously doubt.Good luck with that. No prefabricated house builder will be able to deliver that. Even many solid construction builders would probably decline or charge significantly extra for the effort.It's a pity that so little attention is paid to these details overall... We got strange looks because we wanted to soundproof the drain pipe from the upstairs bathroom that runs through the dining room, and now we regret not doing the same for the outdoor water taps. You can hear the water running when the irrigation system is on... it really doesn’t have to be that way. A simple insulation wrap around the pipe costs only 3.50. I also know people whose toilet is mounted on the wall next to the children’s bedroom... great, now they have to use the guest bathroom in the evening because otherwise the child wakes up. Who plans something like this, and how are you supposed to know beforehand that this could be a problem?
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