ᐅ Single-family house with a pitched roof, without a basement – feedback welcome
Created on: 1 Nov 2018 16:05
M
Milmay
Hello everyone,
We are planning to start building our single-family home next year. Currently, we are working on the floor plan, have tried several versions, and are quite satisfied with what we have so far.
I would appreciate it if you could share your opinions and feedback on the floor plan.
Development plan / restrictions:
Plot size: 445 sqm (4789 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.35
Floor area ratio: 0.7
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: 2 full stories plus attic conversion later
Roof style: gable roof
Maximum height: eaves height 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in) on the street side
Heating: geothermal
Personal budget limit: 400,000
Client requirements:
No basement
Number of occupants: 2 adults and 3 children
Open kitchen with sliding door
Double garage
The attic will initially be used instead of a basement.
It will also house the heating system and utility room with washing machine and dryer.
Since our family plan is not yet final, an additional children's room could be added in the attic in the future.
We are planning to start building our single-family home next year. Currently, we are working on the floor plan, have tried several versions, and are quite satisfied with what we have so far.
I would appreciate it if you could share your opinions and feedback on the floor plan.
Development plan / restrictions:
Plot size: 445 sqm (4789 sq ft)
Slope: no
Site coverage ratio: 0.35
Floor area ratio: 0.7
Number of parking spaces: 2
Number of floors: 2 full stories plus attic conversion later
Roof style: gable roof
Maximum height: eaves height 6.5 m (21 ft 4 in) on the street side
Heating: geothermal
Personal budget limit: 400,000
Client requirements:
No basement
Number of occupants: 2 adults and 3 children
Open kitchen with sliding door
Double garage
The attic will initially be used instead of a basement.
It will also house the heating system and utility room with washing machine and dryer.
Since our family plan is not yet final, an additional children's room could be added in the attic in the future.
D
derpikniker3 Nov 2018 22:34@ypg: Thanks for your help and persistence, but I think we will never agree since we are arguing on different levels. Let’s just leave it at that. I don’t want this to escalate or to be labeled a troll by the established community. Feel free to keep posting, but please don’t expect any responses from me.
@kaho674: Now we’re getting closer to the point.
- For the floor area ratio calculation, the simplified rule is: the full square meter area of the house plus half the square meter area of auxiliary structures (everything that prevents rainwater from soaking into the ground – sealed surfaces). Terraces have a special rule: if the terrace is directly attached to the house, you count the full square meters; if it’s not directly attached, you count a quarter of the square meters – although this is not always recognized.
- I have planned 122m² (1311 sq ft) for the ground floor including the built-over garage. In addition, 18m²/2 (97 sq ft/2) for the driveway, 6m²/2 (32 sq ft/2) for the path to the front door, 25m²/2 (269 sq ft/2) for the garage, and the 12m²/4 (129 sq ft/4) for the terrace as required by the building authority. We might still need to include another terrace or sealed areas. I have reserved 5m² (54 sq ft) for that. Your new design is moving in the right direction here.
- Your software has already struggled with the structural planning. That’s why it highlights in light blue the walls on the floor below or above. If you don’t place a load-bearing wall directly on another load-bearing wall, the pressure exerted by the upper wall transfers only to the ceiling below. This ceiling then has to transfer the load to a “nearby” wall. In the best case (distributed load), shear forces develop; in the worst case (point load), shear and torsion forces occur. The ceiling then literally sags. Beams not only have a subtle space-dividing effect but also convert distributed loads into point loads. Timber frame houses with wooden beam ceilings or steel skeleton constructions have fewer problems with this, but the solid masonry house we prefer unfortunately cannot handle it. Even a more stable prestressed concrete ceiling will not support the load-bearing walls of the upper floor you placed. Alternatively, the house can be designed without load-bearing walls, but the structural engineer will talk about wind loads and plan many concealed stiffening elements made of reinforced concrete within the walls. This usually blows the raw construction budget, and homeowners reconsider whether they can live without flooring for the first ten years. At least that’s my experience, it’s not my first house. Therefore, I always plan all walls on the ground floor as load-bearing and consider how to carry the loads of the second-floor ceiling over them. Ideally, there is also a centrally located load-bearing wall spanning from roof to foundation so that roof loads do not have to be transferred solely onto the exterior walls by long, extra-thick, and expensive rafters and beams. That is also why structural engineers always plan from the roof down to the foundation, not the other way around.
- Do you have a scale for me? Then I can print it out and calculate the room sizes myself.
- The closet in the hallway would be too small for my wife now. We currently have 3m (10 ft) of storage in the hallway, and she wants more. That’s why I planned to use the utility room and connect it to the hallway. After this connection, I calculated 3-4m² (32-43 sq ft) for various open coat racks. There’s also additional space under the bright, open, light-filled staircase.
- Your kitchen layout works. I only placed a balcony door right next to the kitchen to enable direct outdoor access. This avoids walking through the house unnecessarily.
- Lighting on the stairs and in the hallways is a priority for me. Currently, I have a closed hallway on the upper floor and am unhappy with that. Skylights are nice too, but they don’t belong in bedrooms because they cannot be darkened and are not very soundproof.
- You have to insulate the roof anyway; otherwise, you will struggle with moisture and mold in the upper floor from the first winter onwards. Also, you cannot cut the staircase into the ceiling later; it has to be finished up into the attic during construction.
- We also have a tumble dryer. The catch is that you cannot dry laundry for five people in the room you designed here because the room volume is too small. My wife also wants to stack bed linens there among other things. Therefore, after washing laundry on the upper floor, you will have to bring it down to the ground floor to dry and then carry it back upstairs once dry – no benefit compared to my attic solution.
@ kbt09: The staircase layout I prefer along the exterior wall works as well. As I mentioned, the headroom in the middle of the stair landing is 230cm (7 ft 7 in). My kids probably won’t grow taller than that.
@kaho674: Now we’re getting closer to the point.
- For the floor area ratio calculation, the simplified rule is: the full square meter area of the house plus half the square meter area of auxiliary structures (everything that prevents rainwater from soaking into the ground – sealed surfaces). Terraces have a special rule: if the terrace is directly attached to the house, you count the full square meters; if it’s not directly attached, you count a quarter of the square meters – although this is not always recognized.
- I have planned 122m² (1311 sq ft) for the ground floor including the built-over garage. In addition, 18m²/2 (97 sq ft/2) for the driveway, 6m²/2 (32 sq ft/2) for the path to the front door, 25m²/2 (269 sq ft/2) for the garage, and the 12m²/4 (129 sq ft/4) for the terrace as required by the building authority. We might still need to include another terrace or sealed areas. I have reserved 5m² (54 sq ft) for that. Your new design is moving in the right direction here.
- Your software has already struggled with the structural planning. That’s why it highlights in light blue the walls on the floor below or above. If you don’t place a load-bearing wall directly on another load-bearing wall, the pressure exerted by the upper wall transfers only to the ceiling below. This ceiling then has to transfer the load to a “nearby” wall. In the best case (distributed load), shear forces develop; in the worst case (point load), shear and torsion forces occur. The ceiling then literally sags. Beams not only have a subtle space-dividing effect but also convert distributed loads into point loads. Timber frame houses with wooden beam ceilings or steel skeleton constructions have fewer problems with this, but the solid masonry house we prefer unfortunately cannot handle it. Even a more stable prestressed concrete ceiling will not support the load-bearing walls of the upper floor you placed. Alternatively, the house can be designed without load-bearing walls, but the structural engineer will talk about wind loads and plan many concealed stiffening elements made of reinforced concrete within the walls. This usually blows the raw construction budget, and homeowners reconsider whether they can live without flooring for the first ten years. At least that’s my experience, it’s not my first house. Therefore, I always plan all walls on the ground floor as load-bearing and consider how to carry the loads of the second-floor ceiling over them. Ideally, there is also a centrally located load-bearing wall spanning from roof to foundation so that roof loads do not have to be transferred solely onto the exterior walls by long, extra-thick, and expensive rafters and beams. That is also why structural engineers always plan from the roof down to the foundation, not the other way around.
- Do you have a scale for me? Then I can print it out and calculate the room sizes myself.
- The closet in the hallway would be too small for my wife now. We currently have 3m (10 ft) of storage in the hallway, and she wants more. That’s why I planned to use the utility room and connect it to the hallway. After this connection, I calculated 3-4m² (32-43 sq ft) for various open coat racks. There’s also additional space under the bright, open, light-filled staircase.
- Your kitchen layout works. I only placed a balcony door right next to the kitchen to enable direct outdoor access. This avoids walking through the house unnecessarily.
- Lighting on the stairs and in the hallways is a priority for me. Currently, I have a closed hallway on the upper floor and am unhappy with that. Skylights are nice too, but they don’t belong in bedrooms because they cannot be darkened and are not very soundproof.
- You have to insulate the roof anyway; otherwise, you will struggle with moisture and mold in the upper floor from the first winter onwards. Also, you cannot cut the staircase into the ceiling later; it has to be finished up into the attic during construction.
- We also have a tumble dryer. The catch is that you cannot dry laundry for five people in the room you designed here because the room volume is too small. My wife also wants to stack bed linens there among other things. Therefore, after washing laundry on the upper floor, you will have to bring it down to the ground floor to dry and then carry it back upstairs once dry – no benefit compared to my attic solution.
@ kbt09: The staircase layout I prefer along the exterior wall works as well. As I mentioned, the headroom in the middle of the stair landing is 230cm (7 ft 7 in). My kids probably won’t grow taller than that.
D
derpikniker3 Nov 2018 22:44Development plan explained simply:
A. Planning law provisions according to § 9 (1) Building Code
1. Type and extent of structural use (§ 9 (1) No. 1 Building Code)
1.1 Type of structural use
1.1.1 The permitted type of structural use is regulated in § 4 General Residential Areas (WA) of the Federal Land Utilization Ordinance (Baunutzungsverordnung) in the version dated 23.01.1990 (Federal Law Gazette I p. 133), amended 22.04.1993 (Federal Law Gazette I p. 466).
1.1.2 According to § 9 (1) 1 Building Code in conjunction with § 1 (2) and (5) and § 4 Baunutzungsverordnung: In the designated general residential area (WA), businesses of the lodging industry, other non-disruptive commercial businesses, and gas stations that are exceptionally permitted under § 4 (3) Baunutzungsverordnung are not permitted.
1.2 Extent of structural use
1.2.1 The site coverage ratio (Grundflächenzahl) is limited to a maximum of 0.35 and the floor area ratio (Geschossflächenzahl) to a maximum of 0.7 for the designated area (§§ 16 (1) 1+2, 19 and 20 (2)+(3) Baunutzungsverordnung).
1.2.2 A maximum of two full stories is permitted (§ 16 (2) 3 and § 20 (1) Baunutzungsverordnung).
1.2.3 The eave height on the street side may not exceed 6.50 m (21 ft 4 in) above ground level (§ 18 Baunutzungsverordnung).
2. Building method, developable and non-developable
plot areas as well as the positioning of structures
(§ 9 (1) No. 2 Building Code)
Along building boundaries, projections of building elements such as entrance canopies, stairs, bay windows, loggias, and balconies up to a depth of 1.50 m (5 ft) and a width of 3.0 m (9 ft 10 in) may be permitted if public interests, particularly those concerning traffic and design, are not adversely affected. This does not apply to setback areas according to § 17 State Building Code (§ 23 (2) 2nd sentence and (3) 3rd sentence Baunutzungsverordnung).
3. Maximum number of residential units per residential building (§ 9 (1) No. 6
Building Code)
A maximum of 2 residential units per residential building is permitted within the designated area.
4. Green areas (§ 9 (1) No. 15 Building Code)
Within the public green spaces, subordinate structures that support the intended use of the area and the construction of structural noise protection are permitted.
B. Building regulation provisions according to § 9 (4) Building Code in conjunction with § 88 State Building Code
1. Roof shape and roof pitch
For the main buildings, only gable roofs with a pitch of 30 to 40 degrees are permitted. Exceptions may be allowed to match existing neighboring buildings.
2. Materials
In the general residential area, only open wooden, metal, or similar fences or living hedges up to a total height of 1.00 m (3 ft 3 in) above footpath level, including a solid base up to 0.40 m (16 in) high, are permitted on the street-facing side.
A. Planning law provisions according to § 9 (1) Building Code
1. Type and extent of structural use (§ 9 (1) No. 1 Building Code)
1.1 Type of structural use
1.1.1 The permitted type of structural use is regulated in § 4 General Residential Areas (WA) of the Federal Land Utilization Ordinance (Baunutzungsverordnung) in the version dated 23.01.1990 (Federal Law Gazette I p. 133), amended 22.04.1993 (Federal Law Gazette I p. 466).
1.1.2 According to § 9 (1) 1 Building Code in conjunction with § 1 (2) and (5) and § 4 Baunutzungsverordnung: In the designated general residential area (WA), businesses of the lodging industry, other non-disruptive commercial businesses, and gas stations that are exceptionally permitted under § 4 (3) Baunutzungsverordnung are not permitted.
1.2 Extent of structural use
1.2.1 The site coverage ratio (Grundflächenzahl) is limited to a maximum of 0.35 and the floor area ratio (Geschossflächenzahl) to a maximum of 0.7 for the designated area (§§ 16 (1) 1+2, 19 and 20 (2)+(3) Baunutzungsverordnung).
1.2.2 A maximum of two full stories is permitted (§ 16 (2) 3 and § 20 (1) Baunutzungsverordnung).
1.2.3 The eave height on the street side may not exceed 6.50 m (21 ft 4 in) above ground level (§ 18 Baunutzungsverordnung).
2. Building method, developable and non-developable
plot areas as well as the positioning of structures
(§ 9 (1) No. 2 Building Code)
Along building boundaries, projections of building elements such as entrance canopies, stairs, bay windows, loggias, and balconies up to a depth of 1.50 m (5 ft) and a width of 3.0 m (9 ft 10 in) may be permitted if public interests, particularly those concerning traffic and design, are not adversely affected. This does not apply to setback areas according to § 17 State Building Code (§ 23 (2) 2nd sentence and (3) 3rd sentence Baunutzungsverordnung).
3. Maximum number of residential units per residential building (§ 9 (1) No. 6
Building Code)
A maximum of 2 residential units per residential building is permitted within the designated area.
4. Green areas (§ 9 (1) No. 15 Building Code)
Within the public green spaces, subordinate structures that support the intended use of the area and the construction of structural noise protection are permitted.
B. Building regulation provisions according to § 9 (4) Building Code in conjunction with § 88 State Building Code
1. Roof shape and roof pitch
For the main buildings, only gable roofs with a pitch of 30 to 40 degrees are permitted. Exceptions may be allowed to match existing neighboring buildings.
2. Materials
In the general residential area, only open wooden, metal, or similar fences or living hedges up to a total height of 1.00 m (3 ft 3 in) above footpath level, including a solid base up to 0.40 m (16 in) high, are permitted on the street-facing side.
kaho674 schrieb:
Then the situation is more relaxed than I thought. As I said, unless the development plan / zoning plan states otherwise.Of course. Still, the original poster is true to their profession – so every suggestion is pointless.
So: I’m out.
derpikniker schrieb:
- For the floor area ratio calculation, the simplified rule is: full square meters of the house plus half of the square meters of secondary structures (anything that prevents rainwater from soaking into the ground – sealed surfaces). Terraces have a special rule: if the terrace is directly attached to the house, then full square meters count; if the terrace is not directly attached to the house, then only ¼ of the square meters count – but this is not always recognized.
- I planned 122m² (1305 sq ft) for the ground floor including the built-over garage. In addition, there are 18m²/2 (97 sq ft/2) driveway, 6m²/2 (32 sq ft/2) path to the front door, 25m²/2 (269 sq ft/2) garage, and the officially required 12m²/4 (129 sq ft/4) terrace according to the building authority. Possibly, we still need to declare an additional terrace or sealed surfaces. For that, I have a reserve of 5m² (54 sq ft). Your new design is moving in the right direction here. This all sounds like a special exception to me. Is all of this really detailed that way in your zoning or development plan? As mentioned before, usually driveways and paths are not included in the floor area ratio for the house (50% rule).
derpikniker schrieb:
- Your structural engineering software has already done a lot of the work. Of course, someone needs to do the calculations. But honestly, your house is pretty small compared to other projects here with far larger spans, ceiling heights, roofs, and so on. I think you’re worrying unnecessarily. Or do you want everything cast in concrete?
derpikniker schrieb:
- Do you have a scale for me? Then I can print it out and calculate room sizes myself. No, sorry.
derpikniker schrieb:
- The closet in the hallway would be too small for my wife now. Really? A proper five-door wardrobe is too small for the cloakroom? I actually just went to my own closet, which happens to have the same dimensions. Due to the depth, there is actually a lot of space. That surprises me. But okay.
derpikniker schrieb:
- Having good lighting on the stairs and in the corridors is a non-negotiable for me. I currently have a closed hallway on the upper floor and I am not happy with it. Skylights are nice, but they don’t belong in bedrooms because they cannot be darkened and don’t provide proper soundproofing. That is certainly a dealbreaker for the proposal.
derpikniker schrieb:
- You have to insulate the roof anyway, otherwise you will struggle with moisture and mold in the upper floor from the first winter onwards. Also, you cannot cut the stairwell later into the ceiling. It has to be fully built up to the attic during construction. I have no experience here. But it would be nonsense to fully develop the attic space as additional unfinished space right away. I could imagine there are other solutions available.
derpikniker schrieb:
- We have a dryer as well. The problem here is that you can’t dry laundry for five people in the room you designed because the room volume is too small. My wife also wants to store linens and so on here. So after washing the laundry on the upper floor, you would have to carry it down to the ground floor to dry it and then haul the dried laundry back upstairs – no advantage over my attic solution. Nobody understands this. When you take laundry out of the dryer, it’s already dry. And if it’s not, why would you carry it downstairs? Where else should it dry? Maybe outside, but that is quite normal. I understand if you want a bigger laundry room. I just think that you won’t get the roof converted for 400,000 euros. It simply isn’t enough – at least I don’t believe it. That’s why I try to save where I can.
D
derpikniker3 Nov 2018 23:02haydee schrieb:
Door again because of odors
Are you planning to install a ventilation system?
Old apartment with a closed kitchen, simple recirculation—there was a smell. In the apartment, the stairwell, everywhere.
New house with an open floor plan, powerful extractor hood, controlled mechanical ventilation—rarely smells like cooking.
Large windows make a better impression than two narrow ones. Plan your outdoor area as well. Gabion walls can be hidden behind bamboo or shrubbery.
Google or browse Pinterest for ideas.
In the UK, I've seen beautiful basement gardens that pull the view outside, making you forget it’s just a small garden below ground level.
Include the outdoor area in your design. Opening up rooms makes everything feel more open and spacious.
Plant a hedge along the street so no monster stares out of the darkness.- We now have a fairly good (not perfect) vent to the outside. Still, there is a smell—right now it’s cut onions and something simmering in the thermal cooker, which isn’t located under the hood.
- Controlled mechanical ventilation is not planned. There may be decentralized fans in some bedrooms.
- I planned to fully cover the gabion with plants. However, this doesn’t change the fact that it runs very close to the western exterior wall of the dining room. The southern wall of the dining room is free-standing. Why would I change this?
- The hedge on the street side is only allowed to be 1 meter (3 feet) high. That would only keep out very small monsters and saber-toothed tigers. I’m not afraid of those anyway. However, I don’t want to have to share my Netflix experiences with the neighbor’s dog, which walks past this window several times a day. Therefore, a large window on the east side would probably always have to remain closed with blinds. Which would be really unfortunate.
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