ᐅ Windows – Installation / Insulation / Sealing / Execution
Created on: 4 Dec 2019 13:03
A
alive&kicking
A friendly hello to everyone,
we are currently building a single-family house (100% concrete construction with external thermal insulation composite system, ETICS), the shell and roof are finished, windows and doors on the ground floor are already installed.
Yesterday, I took the time to check the installation of the floor-to-ceiling windows (aluminum frames, some with frame extensions). Regarding the heights (to the planned floor level) and vertical/horizontal alignment, the company has generally done a really good job, I must say. However, the entrance door threshold seems too high to me; I have a question about that later.
When it comes to sealing and insulation, I am honestly shocked. In addition, in some places the frames touch the reveal and/or the floor.
Some of these "deficiencies" are somewhat clear to me, but confirmation or assessment from you would still be helpful before I ask the company for corrections or involve an expert.
My questions:
1. In some cases, the frame extensions of the floor-to-ceiling windows/doors rest on the raw floor or almost touch the reveal at the top. I have read that window frames can expand due to temperature changes; in the case of aluminum, I calculated: over a temperature range from -20°C to +40°C (4°F to 104°F) on 2.5m (8 ft 2 in), this would be 3.5 mm (0.14 inches).
Can frame extensions compensate for length changes due to temperature?
Even with an exterior ETICS, shouldn’t the “functional plane” be insulated? (How else would that be done?)
2. For a lift-and-slide door element (about 18 cm (7 inches) deep), compressible tape was used on both the outer and inner areas (permissible?), but there is a cavity in between; shouldn’t that also be insulated?
On one side of this element, a gap of about 3.5 cm (1.4 inches) was bridged with compressible tape. Is that still correct?
3. The entrance door threshold will be about 3.5 cm (1.4 inches) high unless some of it is raised above the screed. According to the plan, it should be 1.8 cm (0.7 inches). That seems like quite a big deviation, doesn’t it?
4. The sealing tapes on the inside and outside were applied very poorly. There was no smooth layer (skim coat) at the floor no, my site manager says it’s not a problem... the adhesive and tape will handle it! But it doesn’t look like it. Just for my understanding: the inner sealing tape is supposed to provide airtightness. Does that mean 100% airtightness, or am I mistaken?
The outer sealing tape is meant to provide protection against driving rain, which to me means not 100% waterproof. Correct? But shouldn’t it still be installed so that no water can enter from above, despite the ETICS?
In some places, the foil adhesive (greenteq) has not set and is still sticky. What could be the reason for this?
5. Insulation of the functional plane. Does this have to be fully foamed? Or is a certain dimension sufficient?
I found PE foam cords on site. I assume these were inserted into the frame extensions, as these do not have their own sealing lip. Is this a correct method?
I would be very grateful for any answers.
(still) alive&kicking
we are currently building a single-family house (100% concrete construction with external thermal insulation composite system, ETICS), the shell and roof are finished, windows and doors on the ground floor are already installed.
Yesterday, I took the time to check the installation of the floor-to-ceiling windows (aluminum frames, some with frame extensions). Regarding the heights (to the planned floor level) and vertical/horizontal alignment, the company has generally done a really good job, I must say. However, the entrance door threshold seems too high to me; I have a question about that later.
When it comes to sealing and insulation, I am honestly shocked. In addition, in some places the frames touch the reveal and/or the floor.
Some of these "deficiencies" are somewhat clear to me, but confirmation or assessment from you would still be helpful before I ask the company for corrections or involve an expert.
My questions:
1. In some cases, the frame extensions of the floor-to-ceiling windows/doors rest on the raw floor or almost touch the reveal at the top. I have read that window frames can expand due to temperature changes; in the case of aluminum, I calculated: over a temperature range from -20°C to +40°C (4°F to 104°F) on 2.5m (8 ft 2 in), this would be 3.5 mm (0.14 inches).
Can frame extensions compensate for length changes due to temperature?
Even with an exterior ETICS, shouldn’t the “functional plane” be insulated? (How else would that be done?)
2. For a lift-and-slide door element (about 18 cm (7 inches) deep), compressible tape was used on both the outer and inner areas (permissible?), but there is a cavity in between; shouldn’t that also be insulated?
On one side of this element, a gap of about 3.5 cm (1.4 inches) was bridged with compressible tape. Is that still correct?
3. The entrance door threshold will be about 3.5 cm (1.4 inches) high unless some of it is raised above the screed. According to the plan, it should be 1.8 cm (0.7 inches). That seems like quite a big deviation, doesn’t it?
4. The sealing tapes on the inside and outside were applied very poorly. There was no smooth layer (skim coat) at the floor no, my site manager says it’s not a problem... the adhesive and tape will handle it! But it doesn’t look like it. Just for my understanding: the inner sealing tape is supposed to provide airtightness. Does that mean 100% airtightness, or am I mistaken?
The outer sealing tape is meant to provide protection against driving rain, which to me means not 100% waterproof. Correct? But shouldn’t it still be installed so that no water can enter from above, despite the ETICS?
In some places, the foil adhesive (greenteq) has not set and is still sticky. What could be the reason for this?
5. Insulation of the functional plane. Does this have to be fully foamed? Or is a certain dimension sufficient?
I found PE foam cords on site. I assume these were inserted into the frame extensions, as these do not have their own sealing lip. Is this a correct method?
I would be very grateful for any answers.
(still) alive&kicking
What do you mean by large windows? They can have the frame extensions made (or have them made); I wouldn’t settle for just plastic frames.
On the outside, we’ll have a facade as well (concrete optics made from AluCubond). Inside, there will be exposed concrete in some areas and in others either covered or painted-covered. I even bought a concrete grinder from Hilti to experiment with, but the surface should still retain character and not be completely uniform.
The ceilings will probably be wood or acoustic ceilings, but that’s not finalized yet.
On the outside, we’ll have a facade as well (concrete optics made from AluCubond). Inside, there will be exposed concrete in some areas and in others either covered or painted-covered. I even bought a concrete grinder from Hilti to experiment with, but the surface should still retain character and not be completely uniform.
The ceilings will probably be wood or acoustic ceilings, but that’s not finalized yet.
A
alive&kicking13 Dec 2019 13:09"Large" in this case means about 2.5 x 2.5 m (8 x 8 feet).
I also tried using a diamond grinding disc, but in our opinion, it removes too much material. So, I refinished all the walls and ceilings with an orbital sander, which took a long time. However, it was worth it since the sintered layer wasn’t completely removed.
We are first checking the acoustics in our space. We actually want to keep the concrete ceiling, but if we can’t get it under control, we will probably have to install an acoustic ceiling.
I also tried using a diamond grinding disc, but in our opinion, it removes too much material. So, I refinished all the walls and ceilings with an orbital sander, which took a long time. However, it was worth it since the sintered layer wasn’t completely removed.
We are first checking the acoustics in our space. We actually want to keep the concrete ceiling, but if we can’t get it under control, we will probably have to install an acoustic ceiling.
B
Bauherr am L5 Jan 2020 15:44@rick2018
Your windows are installed from the outside of the wall, which is exemplary for positioning within the insulation layer. For @alive&kicking, it looks like the windows are installed on the floor slab and between the wall studs as is common, with the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) extending slightly over the frame to ensure proper insulation.
Did I understand that correctly? I think windows mounted from the outside offer the best thermal performance, but they are probably much more expensive, right?
Your windows are installed from the outside of the wall, which is exemplary for positioning within the insulation layer. For @alive&kicking, it looks like the windows are installed on the floor slab and between the wall studs as is common, with the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) extending slightly over the frame to ensure proper insulation.
Did I understand that correctly? I think windows mounted from the outside offer the best thermal performance, but they are probably much more expensive, right?
We will also install a ventilated curtain wall facade.
The expensive part of our windows is the frameless system, the sizes, and the security features. Although our house is larger, you can expect the cost to be 10 to 20 times higher compared to “standard” windows.
But it’s really a comparison of apples and oranges...
However, you have correctly noticed that our windows are perfectly integrated within the insulation and sealing layers.
The expensive part of our windows is the frameless system, the sizes, and the security features. Although our house is larger, you can expect the cost to be 10 to 20 times higher compared to “standard” windows.
But it’s really a comparison of apples and oranges...
However, you have correctly noticed that our windows are perfectly integrated within the insulation and sealing layers.
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Bauherr am L5 Jan 2020 15:57rick2018 schrieb:
But you have already correctly recognized that our windows are optimally positioned within the insulation and sealing layer. That’s exactly the point I mean. It’s rarely seen and suggests that it must be very expensive.
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