Hello everyone,
After purchasing the plot in 2012 and going through a very long information and planning phase (with a lot of input from this forum), our family of four has now received a solid preliminary floor plan from our independent architect. We provided this last autumn with a 100-page specification (including an analysis of our current living situation, room program, energy concept, numerous example images, etc.).
We are now moving forward with the cost estimate to start financing discussions. For the upcoming further commissioning, we have received his approval to share the floor plan here for feedback.
I would really appreciate any feedback and want to sincerely thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
Fred
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Brief Summary of the Desired House Concept
Plot located in a small village in Lower Franconia / Bavaria, 679m² (7300 sq ft), unobstructed edge location on a hill, at the end of a dead-end street, open views all around to the horizon, road to the north, garden to the south.
Detached single-family home for 4 occupants, living area approx. 180m² to 200m² (1900 to 2150 sq ft) plus basement with partial living quality, two full floors – no sloped ceilings. Optimal south orientation with large roof areas and bright interior design; no specific preferred architectural style – simple and clear forms – no extravagances.
Preferably a solid, massive construction throughout – substantial, durable, sustainable, low maintenance
Wall facade: clinker brick, natural stone, or white plaster
Spacious room layout and bright rooms, largely closed floor plan, no unnecessary wall jumps, bay windows, or slants
Plus-energy house, ideally KfW 40 Plus standard – aiming for a high degree of autonomy, modern building technology including heat pump and central controlled mechanical ventilation, large wind-protected southwest terrace, large garage and carport
Functionality takes priority over aesthetics – especially the interior over exterior appearance.
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Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 679m² (7300 sq ft)
Slope: slight, 1.8m (6 ft) decline towards west
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.8
Building envelope, building line and boundary: yes, marked blue – can be exceeded on the northwest side according to architect
Boundary setback: 9m (30 ft) allowed for garage
Number of parking spaces: 2 per dwelling unit
Number of floors: 2
Roof types: gable roof 30–50°, clipped gable from 40°, shed roof 10–20°, hipped roof 15–45°, green flat roof
Architectural style: no specifications
Ridge orientation: east-west
Maximum height/limits: wall height max. 7m (23 ft) above ground
Other requirements: none
Owners' Requirements
Style, roof form, building type: detached single-family home, modern style, gable roof with overhang, rectangular footprint with long side facing south
Basement, floors: basement with living quality and external access, two full floors without sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: currently 4 (ages 37, 36, 2, 1 years)
Space requirement on ground and upper floors: approx. 90m² (970 sq ft) each
Office: family or home office? Regular home office use by both
Guests per year: twice yearly
Open or closed architecture: semi-open – kitchen and dining room together, living room separate
Conservative or modern construction: modern construction with classic elements
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with dining room, kitchen island and extensive kitchen facilities
Number of dining seats: permanent 8, expandable to 12
Fireplace: no, low-energy house with heat pump
Music/sound installation: no, just small TV stand in living room, possibly a projection screen in hobby room
Balcony, roof terrace: no, never used – focus on the large south terrace in the garden
Garage, carport: large garage on side making full use of the 9m (30 ft) boundary, carport integrated in house style in front of house, garden area to be used efficiently without waste
Utility garden, greenhouse: desired
House Design
Designed by: independent architectural firm with 3 architects
What do you particularly like? Why?
The room program and our extensively described daily routines were implemented, as well as key furniture with accurate measurements, minimal hallway space, basement with living-quality space especially a large office with outside view, and utility room with laundry chute. Feasibility of our energy concept with many large south-facing windows and a large roof area for photovoltaic.
On the ground floor, a large kitchen with access to storage and backup kitchen – we love cooking extensively. Direct access from garage to pantry, stair platform as desired, large west-facing bay windows.
On the upper floor, a good layout for the children’s rooms and the parents’ area with good sound insulation, single bedroom to the east and bathroom to the west with freestanding bathtub in front of the window.
What do you dislike? Why?
The cloakroom with two children on the ground floor – was at one point even planned as a separate room. Entry area too dark but wind-protected? Lighting in the dining area from the east is sufficient.
What to do with the attic space? Extend the children’s rooms with stairs there?
Possibly the special highlight in the design…
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 500,000 to 600,000 €
Personal budget limit for house including equipment: 550,000 €
Preferred heating technology: ground source heat pump, controlled mechanical ventilation, photovoltaic, battery storage
If you have to give up certain details/extra features, which ones are they?
Carport, smaller garage, terrace too large, house depth max. 1m (3 ft) less, KfW 40 Plus equipment, hobby room, oversized utility room, sauna in master bathroom
What can you not give up?
Large kitchen, dedicated office, 2 bathrooms, dining space for 12 people
Why did the design develop as it is now?
A 128-page specification with room program and daily routine descriptions including many images was handed over to the architect. There were eight versions from the architectural team – the last four iterations involved only minor adjustments leading to the current concept.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Where do you see need for adjustments to comfortably live in this house with a family of four? What key feature is missing?
After purchasing the plot in 2012 and going through a very long information and planning phase (with a lot of input from this forum), our family of four has now received a solid preliminary floor plan from our independent architect. We provided this last autumn with a 100-page specification (including an analysis of our current living situation, room program, energy concept, numerous example images, etc.).
We are now moving forward with the cost estimate to start financing discussions. For the upcoming further commissioning, we have received his approval to share the floor plan here for feedback.
I would really appreciate any feedback and want to sincerely thank you in advance for your time and thoughts.
Fred
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brief Summary of the Desired House Concept
Plot located in a small village in Lower Franconia / Bavaria, 679m² (7300 sq ft), unobstructed edge location on a hill, at the end of a dead-end street, open views all around to the horizon, road to the north, garden to the south.
Detached single-family home for 4 occupants, living area approx. 180m² to 200m² (1900 to 2150 sq ft) plus basement with partial living quality, two full floors – no sloped ceilings. Optimal south orientation with large roof areas and bright interior design; no specific preferred architectural style – simple and clear forms – no extravagances.
Preferably a solid, massive construction throughout – substantial, durable, sustainable, low maintenance
Wall facade: clinker brick, natural stone, or white plaster
Spacious room layout and bright rooms, largely closed floor plan, no unnecessary wall jumps, bay windows, or slants
Plus-energy house, ideally KfW 40 Plus standard – aiming for a high degree of autonomy, modern building technology including heat pump and central controlled mechanical ventilation, large wind-protected southwest terrace, large garage and carport
Functionality takes priority over aesthetics – especially the interior over exterior appearance.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Development Plan / Restrictions
Plot size: 679m² (7300 sq ft)
Slope: slight, 1.8m (6 ft) decline towards west
Site coverage ratio: 0.4
Floor area ratio: 0.8
Building envelope, building line and boundary: yes, marked blue – can be exceeded on the northwest side according to architect
Boundary setback: 9m (30 ft) allowed for garage
Number of parking spaces: 2 per dwelling unit
Number of floors: 2
Roof types: gable roof 30–50°, clipped gable from 40°, shed roof 10–20°, hipped roof 15–45°, green flat roof
Architectural style: no specifications
Ridge orientation: east-west
Maximum height/limits: wall height max. 7m (23 ft) above ground
Other requirements: none
Owners' Requirements
Style, roof form, building type: detached single-family home, modern style, gable roof with overhang, rectangular footprint with long side facing south
Basement, floors: basement with living quality and external access, two full floors without sloped ceilings
Number of occupants: currently 4 (ages 37, 36, 2, 1 years)
Space requirement on ground and upper floors: approx. 90m² (970 sq ft) each
Office: family or home office? Regular home office use by both
Guests per year: twice yearly
Open or closed architecture: semi-open – kitchen and dining room together, living room separate
Conservative or modern construction: modern construction with classic elements
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with dining room, kitchen island and extensive kitchen facilities
Number of dining seats: permanent 8, expandable to 12
Fireplace: no, low-energy house with heat pump
Music/sound installation: no, just small TV stand in living room, possibly a projection screen in hobby room
Balcony, roof terrace: no, never used – focus on the large south terrace in the garden
Garage, carport: large garage on side making full use of the 9m (30 ft) boundary, carport integrated in house style in front of house, garden area to be used efficiently without waste
Utility garden, greenhouse: desired
House Design
Designed by: independent architectural firm with 3 architects
What do you particularly like? Why?
The room program and our extensively described daily routines were implemented, as well as key furniture with accurate measurements, minimal hallway space, basement with living-quality space especially a large office with outside view, and utility room with laundry chute. Feasibility of our energy concept with many large south-facing windows and a large roof area for photovoltaic.
On the ground floor, a large kitchen with access to storage and backup kitchen – we love cooking extensively. Direct access from garage to pantry, stair platform as desired, large west-facing bay windows.
On the upper floor, a good layout for the children’s rooms and the parents’ area with good sound insulation, single bedroom to the east and bathroom to the west with freestanding bathtub in front of the window.
What do you dislike? Why?
The cloakroom with two children on the ground floor – was at one point even planned as a separate room. Entry area too dark but wind-protected? Lighting in the dining area from the east is sufficient.
What to do with the attic space? Extend the children’s rooms with stairs there?
Possibly the special highlight in the design…
Price estimate according to architect/planner: 500,000 to 600,000 €
Personal budget limit for house including equipment: 550,000 €
Preferred heating technology: ground source heat pump, controlled mechanical ventilation, photovoltaic, battery storage
If you have to give up certain details/extra features, which ones are they?
Carport, smaller garage, terrace too large, house depth max. 1m (3 ft) less, KfW 40 Plus equipment, hobby room, oversized utility room, sauna in master bathroom
What can you not give up?
Large kitchen, dedicated office, 2 bathrooms, dining space for 12 people
Why did the design develop as it is now?
A 128-page specification with room program and daily routine descriptions including many images was handed over to the architect. There were eight versions from the architectural team – the last four iterations involved only minor adjustments leading to the current concept.
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan in 130 characters?
Where do you see need for adjustments to comfortably live in this house with a family of four? What key feature is missing?
200m² (2,150 sq ft) of living space with a 100m² (1,075 sq ft) basement (partially finished as living space).
There are four of you, right?
Just going by instinct, since I’m not familiar with projects of this size, I wouldn’t expect anything around 55... (currency) for this house. I assume you probably haven’t budgeted just €30 (about $30) per square meter for flooring given the level of spaciousness. Also, those two 4m (13 ft) lift-and-slide doors can only be installed using a crane.
You have so many components where additional costs will arise just due to the scale of the project—it’s overwhelming.
That said, I really like the living room.
Is it even possible to sell or rent out a house like this later on in a rural area?
And I’m not talking about a forced sale, but if your work or life situation changes and you need to move in a different direction?
There are four of you, right?
Just going by instinct, since I’m not familiar with projects of this size, I wouldn’t expect anything around 55... (currency) for this house. I assume you probably haven’t budgeted just €30 (about $30) per square meter for flooring given the level of spaciousness. Also, those two 4m (13 ft) lift-and-slide doors can only be installed using a crane.
You have so many components where additional costs will arise just due to the scale of the project—it’s overwhelming.
That said, I really like the living room.
Is it even possible to sell or rent out a house like this later on in a rural area?
And I’m not talking about a forced sale, but if your work or life situation changes and you need to move in a different direction?
I quite like the idea for the ground floor. We also have the dining and living rooms separate and are quite happy with that. At first glance, the living room seems rather small, but that’s just because of the overall size of the floor. However, it is a dark room during the day, and in the evening, you have to close the shutters because otherwise, the sun shines directly on the TV. So if you only plan to use the room as a TV room, that’s fine; but if it’s going to be your family’s main living space, it wouldn’t work for me. I’d also be concerned that a TV might be placed in the kitchen/dining area, causing the actual living room to be forgotten or turned into a playroom. For thermal reasons alone, I would install a door on the pantry.
If the dining room is also the main room for family and guests, you naturally always have a direct view into the kitchen and enter the room through it. That means you’re always forced to tidy up immediately after cooking (which would annoy us a lot, but that’s personal preference).
You could consider a sleeping area in the basement. It would be pleasantly cool in summer and easy to heat in winter, and you don’t really need a view there. Personally, I’d prefer a bright office if it is going to be used regularly. You’re also closer to the children’s bedrooms there, which can be an advantage. Regardless, I would also consider adding a toilet in the basement. Depending on what you plan for the hobby room, it makes sense.
In my opinion, the upper floor is a complete failure. The children’s rooms simply belong on the south or southwest side. So far, you haven’t provided any counterarguments for not doing this. The best location goes to the bathroom! The second-best spot is the dressing room, and the bedroom is like a showcase open to all sides? How do you plan to create privacy there? To me, this only makes sense if you have an extremely exhibitionist nature. Bedroom 2 is, in my opinion, the only decent room on the upper floor, although the position of the door and windows leave very little usable wall space in a space of nearly 17m² (about 183 sq ft). Additionally, the neighbor can nicely look into the bed area, and the narrow window in the north makes the desk spot quite dark. It’s actually the darkest room on the entire floor. Bedroom 1 is completely off because of the offset. You can already see in the plan that the only closet space cuts into the north window. Here too, the usable space is limited, and the desk is poorly placed. No other layout really works well. If you want to put a sofa or a large bed in here, how should the room be arranged? Or does the desk have to go?
The children’s bathroom is obviously inadequate for a house this size, but that’s already been mentioned. The master bathroom, on the other hand, is completely oversized. I also don’t understand the separation of the toilet in a master bath. In a 20m² (215 sq ft) room, I don’t want to sit in a 1.5m² (16 sq ft) toilet. The extra sink there is absolutely pointless. We have such a tiny sink in our guest bathroom, and I would never wash my hands there when a double vanity is just 3 meters (10 feet) away. Also, these little sinks tend to flood the entire area. The bathtub seems just randomly placed and is also located in a room accessible to children. Children usually use it much more often than their parents. How often do you personally take a bath?
The sauna would be perfect for the basement of your house. That way, it wouldn’t take up living space upstairs, and there is direct outdoor access. Even if you build a connection to the garage (a terrace there, for example, would require planning permission / a building permit), you would still have to go through the dressing room and bedroom to end up half-naked standing on a fully visible garage on a hill. With binoculars, the whole town could enjoy the view.
The exterior design isn’t really to my taste either. The garage is positioned too high and too far forward on the lot, and the carport is too low. Why do you need a window in the stairwell when no light comes in anyway due to the parked car and the roof (north side)? Why is the garage 5.5m (18 feet) wide? That’s too narrow for two cars but way too wide for one. Do you still have a storage room for equipment behind it?
You already have a lot of glazing on the south side. Is the pantry really supposed to have a floor-to-ceiling window? If someone is writing a shopping list on the terrace, they could check the inventory directly, but otherwise, I find that very odd. A floor-to-ceiling window in the dressing room also makes no sense to me. The same applies to a floor-to-ceiling window in front of which you place a sofa. Your dining area also has no usable wall space because of the large windows. Where will the kids’ puzzles, board games, or smaller toys be stored if they mainly spend their time in the living areas? Where are they supposed to play? A play corner for toys like Playmobil already takes up quite a bit of space.
If the dining room is also the main room for family and guests, you naturally always have a direct view into the kitchen and enter the room through it. That means you’re always forced to tidy up immediately after cooking (which would annoy us a lot, but that’s personal preference).
You could consider a sleeping area in the basement. It would be pleasantly cool in summer and easy to heat in winter, and you don’t really need a view there. Personally, I’d prefer a bright office if it is going to be used regularly. You’re also closer to the children’s bedrooms there, which can be an advantage. Regardless, I would also consider adding a toilet in the basement. Depending on what you plan for the hobby room, it makes sense.
In my opinion, the upper floor is a complete failure. The children’s rooms simply belong on the south or southwest side. So far, you haven’t provided any counterarguments for not doing this. The best location goes to the bathroom! The second-best spot is the dressing room, and the bedroom is like a showcase open to all sides? How do you plan to create privacy there? To me, this only makes sense if you have an extremely exhibitionist nature. Bedroom 2 is, in my opinion, the only decent room on the upper floor, although the position of the door and windows leave very little usable wall space in a space of nearly 17m² (about 183 sq ft). Additionally, the neighbor can nicely look into the bed area, and the narrow window in the north makes the desk spot quite dark. It’s actually the darkest room on the entire floor. Bedroom 1 is completely off because of the offset. You can already see in the plan that the only closet space cuts into the north window. Here too, the usable space is limited, and the desk is poorly placed. No other layout really works well. If you want to put a sofa or a large bed in here, how should the room be arranged? Or does the desk have to go?
The children’s bathroom is obviously inadequate for a house this size, but that’s already been mentioned. The master bathroom, on the other hand, is completely oversized. I also don’t understand the separation of the toilet in a master bath. In a 20m² (215 sq ft) room, I don’t want to sit in a 1.5m² (16 sq ft) toilet. The extra sink there is absolutely pointless. We have such a tiny sink in our guest bathroom, and I would never wash my hands there when a double vanity is just 3 meters (10 feet) away. Also, these little sinks tend to flood the entire area. The bathtub seems just randomly placed and is also located in a room accessible to children. Children usually use it much more often than their parents. How often do you personally take a bath?
The sauna would be perfect for the basement of your house. That way, it wouldn’t take up living space upstairs, and there is direct outdoor access. Even if you build a connection to the garage (a terrace there, for example, would require planning permission / a building permit), you would still have to go through the dressing room and bedroom to end up half-naked standing on a fully visible garage on a hill. With binoculars, the whole town could enjoy the view.
The exterior design isn’t really to my taste either. The garage is positioned too high and too far forward on the lot, and the carport is too low. Why do you need a window in the stairwell when no light comes in anyway due to the parked car and the roof (north side)? Why is the garage 5.5m (18 feet) wide? That’s too narrow for two cars but way too wide for one. Do you still have a storage room for equipment behind it?
You already have a lot of glazing on the south side. Is the pantry really supposed to have a floor-to-ceiling window? If someone is writing a shopping list on the terrace, they could check the inventory directly, but otherwise, I find that very odd. A floor-to-ceiling window in the dressing room also makes no sense to me. The same applies to a floor-to-ceiling window in front of which you place a sofa. Your dining area also has no usable wall space because of the large windows. Where will the kids’ puzzles, board games, or smaller toys be stored if they mainly spend their time in the living areas? Where are they supposed to play? A play corner for toys like Playmobil already takes up quite a bit of space.
I get the impression that you are building a “parents’ house” perfectly tailored to your needs with all the amenities. Since you happen to have children, the remaining space is simply used for their bedrooms. As a final touch, you don’t even want them to have their own bathroom, so they get a standard 6m² (65 sq ft) wet room, while the parents enjoy a comfortable 4m² (43 sq ft) shower and can play hide and seek in the walk-in closet. You have 60m² (645 sq ft) plus an office and hobby room, and a 30m² (323 sq ft) experience kitchen, but your children have to make do with just over 40m² (430 sq ft) total. Personally, I think the priorities are completely misplaced here. From this perspective, I can well imagine that the children will start looking for their own place early on. Although the children’s bedrooms are larger than in many other building projects, it still feels like they are just unwanted extras ranked last on the priority list.
With 200m² (2,150 sq ft) plus a 50m² (540 sq ft) basement living area, I would have many ideas on how to spatially separate the parents' and children’s areas during the teenage years. There would be great possibilities to create their own separate space, or even a kind of secondary apartment, in case one of them stays home during their studies.
With 200m² (2,150 sq ft) plus a 50m² (540 sq ft) basement living area, I would have many ideas on how to spatially separate the parents' and children’s areas during the teenage years. There would be great possibilities to create their own separate space, or even a kind of secondary apartment, in case one of them stays home during their studies.
86bibo schrieb:
I get the feeling you’re building a “parent house” that’s tailored 100% to your needs with all the conveniences. Since there happen to be children, the leftover space is used for their bedrooms. As a final touch, you don’t even want them to have their own bathroom, so they get a basic 6m² (65 sq ft) wet room, while the parents enjoy their 4m² (43 sq ft) shower and can play hide and seek in the walk-in closet. You have 60m² (645 sq ft) + office + hobby room + 30m² (323 sq ft) experiential kitchen, and your children have to make do with around 40m² (430 sq ft) in total. Personally, I think the priorities here are completely misplaced. From this perspective, I can well imagine that the children will look for their own place quite early. Although the children’s rooms are larger than in many other building projects, it still feels like they’re just an annoying afterthought at the very bottom of the priority list.
With 200m² (2,150 sq ft) + 50m² (540 sq ft) finished basement, I personally would have a lot of ideas on how to spatially separate the parents’ and children’s areas for the teenage years. There would be great options to create their own separate space, or even a kind of self-contained apartment in case one of them stays at home during university. I actually see it quite differently. You build for yourselves, not the children. That’s why I think it’s good your plans are designed around you and not the children. And it’s not as if there is no space for the children. They even have their own bathroom.The children can build their own house.
saar2and schrieb:
I see it completely differently.
You build for yourself, not for the children. That’s why I think it’s good that your plans are designed for you and not for the children. And it’s not like there’s no space for the kids. They even have their own bathroom.
The children can build their own house.
Well, I would say that a young family or couple builds a house for the family. After all, they will live under the same roof with the children for at least two decades and have to put up with them.
Sunlight in the bedroom is of little use, and a panoramic window in the bedroom, bathroom, or dressing room isn’t very practical either.
In this respect, one can assume that many things have not been thoroughly considered.
Many opinions here are good advice: for the original poster, it means picking the best parts for themselves.
saar2and schrieb:
I see it completely differently. You build a home for yourselves, not for the children. That’s why I think it’s good that your plans are designed for you and not for the kids. And it’s not like there’s no space for the children. They even have their own bathroom.
The children can build their own house. I think that’s nonsense (just my opinion, please don’t take it personally). Even if the children don’t contribute a cent to the mortgage and (probably) move out eventually, their needs should be considered just as important as the adults’, or at least the “adult plan” shouldn’t be made at the expense of the kids. The children don’t have their own bathroom; they have a secondary bathroom so they don’t disturb the adults in the main bathroom. To me, that makes a big difference. I would probably protest by getting up frequently at night to use the toilet. If the pipes are inside the wall, even a thick wall won’t provide enough sound insulation. I also find the fact that the children’s bathroom is closer to the bedrooms than the parents’ bathroom open to debate.
There is no area on the ground floor where the children can play or be active, and the entrance area is undersized for four people. To me, the house feels like it was designed for a childless couple, with a few square meters quickly taken away for children’s rooms.
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