ᐅ Enlarging the Living Room / Extending the Concrete Ceiling?
Created on: 11 Nov 2019 14:26
S
spyfromtheeast
Hello everyone,
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
Zaba12 schrieb:
So you don’t feel singled out here. Have you ever considered a conservatory on the side? The original poster has already ruled out a conservatory. That would have been my first thought as well.
RomeoZwo schrieb:
The original poster has already ruled out a conservatory. That would have been my first thought as well.Okay, I must have missed that. Then I predict that nothing will happen. The structure is too hot and too expensive.S
spyfromtheeast14 Nov 2019 14:29Tassimat schrieb:
The furniture layout is quite important, because if steel beams are installed, new supports (columns) will have to be placed right against the wall. That’s very inconvenient for a sofa.I still need to create it. I will do that and then post it here.Tassimat schrieb:
Even if you have the money: better build a really great conservatory and buy the Porsche instead.As I said, a conservatory is really not my thing.11ant schrieb:
Sure – better two Porsches for the structural engineer then. You really can’t earn money that effortlessly by throwing it out of the window with a particle accelerator.Sorry, but I don’t understand the point of these sentences.Zaba12 schrieb:
I still haven’t seen how much budget you have for this! And by the way, I also think that rebuilding will be cheaper.Theoretically as much as needed. As I said, it was just an idea so far, and I came to this forum to check the feasibility of this idea with others (who might have more expertise than me). So far, the feedback has clearly pointed in one direction.Zaba12 schrieb:
This is not a classic extension with its own foundation slab where you can keep living in the rest of the house. The house will be uninhabitable for months. You only see a bigger living room, but I see...No, I’m realistic enough to see that too. Although I would estimate the construction period to be shorter. During that process, we would also make other changes at the same time. Remove non-load-bearing walls, retile the bathroom, move windows, add a veranda, etc.Zaba12 schrieb:
In my opinion, you’ll easily end up over 100,000€ (euros) if it’s even 150sqm (1,615 sq ft), and you have no guarantee or warranty that cracks won’t appear between the existing building and the extension.Thanks for your input. I thought it would be somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000. Basically a lot of money for a few square meters and one extra XXL window.Zaba12 schrieb:
Just so you don’t feel attacked here: Have you considered a conservatory on the side? 20sqm (215 sq ft) with a large wall opening (you’ll also need a structural engineer for this). But heating will be tricky there as well.It’s all good. I don’t get worked up about that. I did ask for opinions.Scout schrieb:
He hasn’t even shared the floor plans… maybe you could include the existing terrace on the right side into the house. But without plans, nothing will work.Sorry. I’m quite fixed on what kind of extension I want. Also, then I wouldn’t have a terrace left for my veranda.Zaba12 schrieb:
Then I predict nothing will happen. This project is too complex and too expensive.Quite possible. As I said, it’s an idea I’ve had for a while. If everyone here says “bad idea,” then that’s just how it is. Maybe I’ll just realize the part with the window.Thanks & best regards,
spyfromtheeast
Thank you for the detailed response. What I just don’t understand is why someone would be so unreasonable to spend so much money for so little square meters and utility. Even if you have a lot of money saved, it’s crazy.
Honestly, you don’t have to be an expert to realize that something like this will cost well over €100,000. Without considering any demolition, the extension alone should cost at least €50,000, and there’s no way it costs less than that. You will need every trade required for a complete new build, every single one!
Just the large window alone, if it’s a single window, is estimated to cost between €5,000 and €10,000.
Honestly, you don’t have to be an expert to realize that something like this will cost well over €100,000. Without considering any demolition, the extension alone should cost at least €50,000, and there’s no way it costs less than that. You will need every trade required for a complete new build, every single one!
Just the large window alone, if it’s a single window, is estimated to cost between €5,000 and €10,000.
S
spyfromtheeast14 Nov 2019 15:35Here is the plan including the furniture layout.
I had considered placing the sofa with the long side against wall 1 and then mounting the TV on the wall by 2. There are connections there, and originally the architect seems to have intended it that way. In that case, the current shelving unit/TV cabinet combination would have to be removed.
It’s important that you can see the stove from the sofa (W-o-m-a-n).
The furniture plan is not exact or to scale down to the centimeter, but it’s roughly correct.
Thank you.
I think this is hard for outsiders to understand. I simply have a certain, let’s say ideal vision of the room. How much it’s worth to me in the end is something I will have to figure out with myself, and I have to be able/willing to afford it.
Honestly, I would have estimated less. 100,000€ seems like a lot to me, especially considering what the whole house cost as a new build.
I think so, yes. That’s probably how it will turn out, even if some trades are needed only for very small tasks.
For discussion, here is my rough estimate (2 minutes of thinking):
Architect + structural engineer: 6,000€
Building permit/planning permission: 500€
Building control fees: 500€
Client’s homepage: 250€
Demolition: 3,000€
Excavation: 2,000€
Shell construction: 12,000€
Roof + plumber (roof flashings): 3,000€
Veranda: 5,000€
Electrician: 2,000€
Plumbing: 1,000€ (underfloor heating stays as is)
Windows: 1,500€
Plasterer: 5,000€
Interior finishes: 5,000€
=> roughly 47,000€
I’ve probably forgotten twice that amount, but nothing else comes to mind right now...
Regards, spyfromtheeast.
I had considered placing the sofa with the long side against wall 1 and then mounting the TV on the wall by 2. There are connections there, and originally the architect seems to have intended it that way. In that case, the current shelving unit/TV cabinet combination would have to be removed.
It’s important that you can see the stove from the sofa (W-o-m-a-n).
The furniture plan is not exact or to scale down to the centimeter, but it’s roughly correct.
Zaba12 schrieb:
Thanks for the detailed answer. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want to be so unreasonable and spend that much money for such little square meters and use. Even if you have a lot of money saved, it’s crazy.
Thank you.
I think this is hard for outsiders to understand. I simply have a certain, let’s say ideal vision of the room. How much it’s worth to me in the end is something I will have to figure out with myself, and I have to be able/willing to afford it.
Zaba12 schrieb:
To be honest, you don’t have to be a professional to see that this will cost more than 100,000€. Without demolition, the enlargement alone should cost at least 50,000€, and it definitely won’t.
Honestly, I would have estimated less. 100,000€ seems like a lot to me, especially considering what the whole house cost as a new build.
Zaba12 schrieb:
You will need every trade that you would also need for a complete new build, every single one!
I think so, yes. That’s probably how it will turn out, even if some trades are needed only for very small tasks.
For discussion, here is my rough estimate (2 minutes of thinking):
Architect + structural engineer: 6,000€
Building permit/planning permission: 500€
Building control fees: 500€
Client’s homepage: 250€
Demolition: 3,000€
Excavation: 2,000€
Shell construction: 12,000€
Roof + plumber (roof flashings): 3,000€
Veranda: 5,000€
Electrician: 2,000€
Plumbing: 1,000€ (underfloor heating stays as is)
Windows: 1,500€
Plasterer: 5,000€
Interior finishes: 5,000€
=> roughly 47,000€
I’ve probably forgotten twice that amount, but nothing else comes to mind right now...
Regards, spyfromtheeast.
Move the terrace to the left; a small extension at the top of the plan should be relatively easy to do since there is currently only glazing there.
The bay window on the left (this is complex, as the wall needs to be supported) will partly accommodate the dining room. The living room will move to the right. The basement window on the left will be covered over, but the upper basement window can remain as is. A hanging chair will be placed in the corner to the left of the stove.
But again: without further plans, this won’t work!
The bay window on the left (this is complex, as the wall needs to be supported) will partly accommodate the dining room. The living room will move to the right. The basement window on the left will be covered over, but the upper basement window can remain as is. A hanging chair will be placed in the corner to the left of the stove.
But again: without further plans, this won’t work!
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