ᐅ Enlarging the Living Room / Extending the Concrete Ceiling?
Created on: 11 Nov 2019 14:26
S
spyfromtheeast
Hello everyone,
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
spyfromtheeast schrieb:
Here is the plan including the furniture layout.
I once considered placing the sofa with its long side against wall 1 and then mounting the TV on the wall by 2. There are connections there, and originally the architect apparently planned it that way. Then the current wall unit/TV cabinet would have to go.
It’s important that you can see the stove from the sofa (W-o-m-a-n ).
The furniture plan isn’t exact to the centimeter/scale, but it’s roughly correct.
Thank you.
I think this might be hard to understand for outsiders. I have a certain, let’s say ideal vision for the room. How much it’s worth to me later is something I have to figure out myself or be able/willing to afford.
Honestly, I had estimated less. 100,000€ (approx. $108,000) seems like a lot to me, especially when you see what the whole house cost as a new build.
I think that’s where this will end up anyway. Even if some trades are only for very small tasks.
For reference, here’s my rough estimate (2 minutes of thinking):
Architect + Structural engineer: 6,000€ (approx. $6,500)
Building permit / planning permission: 500€ (approx. $540)
BG: 500€ (approx. $540)
Client’s homepage: 250€ (approx. $270)
Demolition: 3,000€ (approx. $3,200)
Excavation: 2,000€ (approx. $2,150)
Shell construction: 12,000€ (approx. $13,000)
Roof + metalwork: 3,000€ (approx. $3,200)
Veranda: 5,000€ (approx. $5,400)
Electrician: 2,000€ (approx. $2,150)
Plumbing: 1,000€ (approx. $1,080) (Underfloor heating stays as-is)
Windows: 1,500€ (approx. $1,600)
Plasterer: 5,000€ (approx. $5,400)
Interior: 5,000€ (approx. $5,400)
=> roughly 47,000€ (approx. $50,700)
Probably forgot two or three halves, but nothing else comes to mind right now...
Regards, spyfromtheeast. - The structural engineer alone will cost you at least 3,000€ (approx. $3,200)
- For the remaining 3,000€ (approx. $3,200), the architect won’t even get out of bed. For a project (and I stand by this) costing 100,000€ (approx. $108,000), you’re looking at about 13,000€ (approx. $14,000) in fees.
- Chiseling out and disposing of screed, then reinstalling it, costs about 10,000€ (approx. $10,800)
- Relaying underfloor heating with insulation: 8,000€ (approx. $8,600)
- One day with an excavator costs around 800€ (approx. $860)
- Scaffolding over several months: 2,000€ (approx. $2,150)
- …
Honestly, when I read that you also included restoring the outdoor area, I really don’t feel like continuing to write and list what’s missing or where you’ve underestimated. Go see an architect and get professional advice!
Zaba12 schrieb:
I can’t imagine how it would be ensured that an attached slab-on-grade foundation would settle in the same way as the existing structure. Me neither, and it’s not for lack of imagination. But the original poster is also considering repairing the basement at the same time (so its windows won’t be blocked). That would add onto your estimate of ten months already appropriate for the ground floor. The OP basically wants to replace an entire corner of the house below the upper floor as if changing a tire while driving. It hardly gets more unrealistic than that.
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Tina mit K14 Nov 2019 20:3711ant schrieb:
It hardly gets more unrealistic.So, more like a helium castle? Maybe watched the movie "Up" one too many times? Jokes aside. The original poster has since reconsidered and realized the idea isn’t viable.
I’d suggest watching more Bob the Builder as mandatory viewing.
S
spyfromtheeast14 Nov 2019 21:06Scout schrieb:
Moving the terrace to the left, a small extension as shown in the plan above should be relatively easy since there is currently only glazing there anyway...
[...]
But again: Without further plans, nothing will happen! Thanks for the idea and the drawing. It doesn’t look bad at all. I will think about it. As I said, the plans are a bit tricky. I always have to adapt them to reality, since the house was not really built according to the architect’s plans and some walls/windows/doors were implemented somewhat differently.
But it’s no longer worth putting any work into this here. From what I gather from the comments, this thread is finished and it would be a wasted effort to spend more time on it.
Zaba12 schrieb:
- The structural engineer alone will cost you at least 3,000€
- For the remaining 3,000€, the architect won’t even get out of bed. For a construction project (and I stand by this) costing 100,000€, you’re looking at approximately 13,000€ in fees.
- Removing screed, disposal, relaying 10,000€
- Relaying underfloor heating including insulation 8,000€
- A day for an excavator alone costs 800€
- Scaffolding over several months 2,000€
- ... I don’t know where you got your prices from, but I consider them hugely exaggerated. The screed for the entire house didn’t cost anywhere near 10,000€. I won’t even bother commenting on the rest.
Zaba12 schrieb:
Man, when I read that you also include restoring the outdoor area, I really don’t feel like continuing to write and list what’s missing and where you have miscalculated. Go to an architect and get properly advised! Calm down, I can do fine without your comments here. You are not obliged to keep writing in this thread.
Tina mit K schrieb:
So more like a helium castle? Maybe you’ve watched the movie “Up” too often?
Jokes aside. The OP has now backed down and realized that the idea doesn’t work.
I suggest more “Bob the Builder” as mandatory viewing. I took a look at your posting history here. Just as I thought.
Thanks to everyone who left me constructive comments here. For me, this topic is now finished in this forum.
No further comments are needed, I will no longer visit the forum and therefore will not read any more posts.
Regards, spyfromtheeast.
@spyfromtheeast: Don’t get discouraged. Although this forum is for homeowners, many members have built turnkey homes and therefore may not know individual prices.
In my opinion, some of the prices mentioned by Zaba are completely off...
Two years ago, I paid around 10,000 euros for screed including insulation materials on nearly 200 square meters (2150 square feet) in the outskirts of Stuttgart.
If you’re somewhat handy, you can remove the screed yourself—it’s not a big deal. I recently removed 180 square meters (1940 square feet) with six friends on a Saturday.
Personally, I wouldn’t hire an architect but rather a good structural engineer or civil engineer. I can recommend one if you want.
I think you should be able to manage with about 120,000 euros.
In my opinion, some of the prices mentioned by Zaba are completely off...
Two years ago, I paid around 10,000 euros for screed including insulation materials on nearly 200 square meters (2150 square feet) in the outskirts of Stuttgart.
If you’re somewhat handy, you can remove the screed yourself—it’s not a big deal. I recently removed 180 square meters (1940 square feet) with six friends on a Saturday.
Personally, I wouldn’t hire an architect but rather a good structural engineer or civil engineer. I can recommend one if you want.
I think you should be able to manage with about 120,000 euros.
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