ᐅ Electrical layout plan, second fix, bathroom tiles, knee wall (dwarf wall), floor-to-ceiling windows
Created on: 27 May 2016 10:23
M
MizitOur preferred provider also offers us a viewing of the selection samples with cost calculation before signing the contract; in addition, we are aiming for minor modifications to the plans.
We will definitely take advantage of the viewing opportunity and are very curious. I imagine that in such a selection center, the staff might also be influenced by recent events and that the discussions are naturally intended to maximize the provider’s profit.
That’s why we have already gone through several catalogs... trying to get a preliminary sense of what makes sense and where it is worth investing now. It’s alarming how expensive building has become. But we don’t want to focus solely on the numbers. Instead, we want to consider what constitutes a reasonable standard, for example in electrical installations, that is worth paying for, and what is unnecessary—what people are persuaded to buy but that ultimately does not really differ from the standard included in the fixed price.
Maybe you can share your experiences with certain options... I will attach the floor plan of the planned house later.
1. Electrical Planning
We find it difficult to assess what is really needed here. It seems wrong to skimp on outlets, but we can’t really judge how much an upgrade “should cost” or whether it makes sense to subcontract this trade. Google gave me very different price indications for outlet upgrades.
Example: The standard package includes 2 ceiling or wall outlets in the kitchen (assuming for lights), 8 outlets placed as desired, 5 double outlets placed as desired, 1 antenna socket, and 1 stove connection. The standard in a child’s room would be 1 ceiling outlet, 8 outlets placed as desired, 1 antenna socket, 1 telephone socket, and 1 smoke detector — 8 outlets sound good initially, but I assume the standard only covers the minimum and might not be sufficient.
The highest level of execution would provide:
Kitchen: 2 additional double outlets;
Child’s room: an additional 2 single outlets, 1 double outlet, and 1 LED night light.
We need to ask how much this upgrade costs. What do you think—does this upgrade make sense? Should there perhaps also be a triple outlet? For example, later under a desk... computer, desk lamp, printer...
2. Screed
The screed will be installed as a floating screed, with a choice between 5 or 6 cm (2 or 2.4 inches) thickness. We are laypeople and have no idea — does an extra centimeter really make a difference? In what way? Is it worth it?
3. Knee Wall
The knee wall is 1 m (3.3 feet) by standard. In our current rental apartment, we don’t have any sloped ceilings, and living without them is of course very comfortable. To reduce the shock and limitations, we are considering increasing the knee wall height. We can build two stories; that wouldn’t be a problem in terms of regulations. From your experience, is it very practical for everyday life to set the knee wall to 1.40 m (4.6 feet)? We find a gable roof the most attractive, but we could also build two full stories plus a gable roof... though that would certainly be significantly more expensive, right? What price range do you think such a redesign would fall into?
4. Bathroom Tiles
The standard includes tiles priced at €30 per sqm (approximately $30 per 11 sq ft), which we don’t like visually. We really like the ones priced at €40 per sqm (approximately $40 per 11 sq ft) and would choose those accordingly. Our bathroom floor area will be just under 16 sqm (172 sq ft), and we would like the side walls tiled up to at least 1.60 m (5.25 feet). Roughly estimated for tiles and labor, would around €1,000 be enough?
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
We currently live in a very bright apartment and don’t want to accept noticeably less natural light here. We would therefore like to add 2 more floor-to-ceiling windows in the living room, as well as double sash windows with mullions in the master bedroom and the two children’s rooms. I fear this could be a very expensive upgrade. But more light is always worth it, right? What price range do you think this upgrade would fall into?
6. Interior Plaster
All living areas would have a 10 mm (0.4 inch) gypsum plaster applied with Q2 finish quality. We do not intend to paint directly on it or use very thin wallpapers; rather, we prefer “normal” textured wallpapers. Is Q2 finish sufficient for this, or should we opt for a higher quality plaster finish right away?
Thank you all!
We will definitely take advantage of the viewing opportunity and are very curious. I imagine that in such a selection center, the staff might also be influenced by recent events and that the discussions are naturally intended to maximize the provider’s profit.
That’s why we have already gone through several catalogs... trying to get a preliminary sense of what makes sense and where it is worth investing now. It’s alarming how expensive building has become. But we don’t want to focus solely on the numbers. Instead, we want to consider what constitutes a reasonable standard, for example in electrical installations, that is worth paying for, and what is unnecessary—what people are persuaded to buy but that ultimately does not really differ from the standard included in the fixed price.
Maybe you can share your experiences with certain options... I will attach the floor plan of the planned house later.
1. Electrical Planning
We find it difficult to assess what is really needed here. It seems wrong to skimp on outlets, but we can’t really judge how much an upgrade “should cost” or whether it makes sense to subcontract this trade. Google gave me very different price indications for outlet upgrades.
Example: The standard package includes 2 ceiling or wall outlets in the kitchen (assuming for lights), 8 outlets placed as desired, 5 double outlets placed as desired, 1 antenna socket, and 1 stove connection. The standard in a child’s room would be 1 ceiling outlet, 8 outlets placed as desired, 1 antenna socket, 1 telephone socket, and 1 smoke detector — 8 outlets sound good initially, but I assume the standard only covers the minimum and might not be sufficient.
The highest level of execution would provide:
Kitchen: 2 additional double outlets;
Child’s room: an additional 2 single outlets, 1 double outlet, and 1 LED night light.
We need to ask how much this upgrade costs. What do you think—does this upgrade make sense? Should there perhaps also be a triple outlet? For example, later under a desk... computer, desk lamp, printer...
2. Screed
The screed will be installed as a floating screed, with a choice between 5 or 6 cm (2 or 2.4 inches) thickness. We are laypeople and have no idea — does an extra centimeter really make a difference? In what way? Is it worth it?
3. Knee Wall
The knee wall is 1 m (3.3 feet) by standard. In our current rental apartment, we don’t have any sloped ceilings, and living without them is of course very comfortable. To reduce the shock and limitations, we are considering increasing the knee wall height. We can build two stories; that wouldn’t be a problem in terms of regulations. From your experience, is it very practical for everyday life to set the knee wall to 1.40 m (4.6 feet)? We find a gable roof the most attractive, but we could also build two full stories plus a gable roof... though that would certainly be significantly more expensive, right? What price range do you think such a redesign would fall into?
4. Bathroom Tiles
The standard includes tiles priced at €30 per sqm (approximately $30 per 11 sq ft), which we don’t like visually. We really like the ones priced at €40 per sqm (approximately $40 per 11 sq ft) and would choose those accordingly. Our bathroom floor area will be just under 16 sqm (172 sq ft), and we would like the side walls tiled up to at least 1.60 m (5.25 feet). Roughly estimated for tiles and labor, would around €1,000 be enough?
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
We currently live in a very bright apartment and don’t want to accept noticeably less natural light here. We would therefore like to add 2 more floor-to-ceiling windows in the living room, as well as double sash windows with mullions in the master bedroom and the two children’s rooms. I fear this could be a very expensive upgrade. But more light is always worth it, right? What price range do you think this upgrade would fall into?
6. Interior Plaster
All living areas would have a 10 mm (0.4 inch) gypsum plaster applied with Q2 finish quality. We do not intend to paint directly on it or use very thin wallpapers; rather, we prefer “normal” textured wallpapers. Is Q2 finish sufficient for this, or should we opt for a higher quality plaster finish right away?
Thank you all!
1. Electrical Planning
Use your floor plan as a basis to think about where everything should go. You will quickly realize that your standard setup is probably not bad, but some things might be missing here and there:
- You can never have enough power outlets
- Separate outlets for washing machine, dishwasher, dryer, heating/ventilation
- Cross switches and two-way switches
- Light connections
- Outdoor electrical system (lighting, grill, equipment, possibly 400V for electric car)
- Network connections
PS: Remember to include an outdoor water tap.
2. Screed
It doesn’t add much in terms of insulation but is more stable at 6mm (0.24 inches). If you plan a fireplace or stove, reinforce the area accordingly.
3. Knee Wall
The floor construction immediately reduces the knee wall height of 1.40 meters (4 ft 7 in) by about 17 cm (7 inches), I estimate. Not much space left then.
A knee wall height of 1.60 or 1.80 meters (5 ft 3 in or 5 ft 11 in) is better, for example for a bedroom with a bed.
I can’t say what the cost of redesigning would be from here.
4. Bathroom Tiles
Could work; just have a quick calculation done during your pre-selection meeting. By the way, I had the shower area tiled up to the ceiling.
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
Yes, they are not cheap. Roughly estimated at $1,500 - $3,000 per window, depending on the design.
I also installed two of these double-door casement windows. I believe that cost about $4,700 in total after adjustments.
I still regret it today. The open windows take up a huge amount of interior space; I would go with a sliding door now. Also a suggestion for you: maybe consider a larger sliding or lift-and-slide door with a fixed floor-to-ceiling window next to it. In my experience, you tend to use only one door to go outside.
6. Interior Plaster
Honestly: I would recommend a Q3 finish if you are sensitive to surface quality.
Best regards
Thorsten
Use your floor plan as a basis to think about where everything should go. You will quickly realize that your standard setup is probably not bad, but some things might be missing here and there:
- You can never have enough power outlets
- Separate outlets for washing machine, dishwasher, dryer, heating/ventilation
- Cross switches and two-way switches
- Light connections
- Outdoor electrical system (lighting, grill, equipment, possibly 400V for electric car)
- Network connections
PS: Remember to include an outdoor water tap.
2. Screed
It doesn’t add much in terms of insulation but is more stable at 6mm (0.24 inches). If you plan a fireplace or stove, reinforce the area accordingly.
3. Knee Wall
The floor construction immediately reduces the knee wall height of 1.40 meters (4 ft 7 in) by about 17 cm (7 inches), I estimate. Not much space left then.
A knee wall height of 1.60 or 1.80 meters (5 ft 3 in or 5 ft 11 in) is better, for example for a bedroom with a bed.
I can’t say what the cost of redesigning would be from here.
4. Bathroom Tiles
Could work; just have a quick calculation done during your pre-selection meeting. By the way, I had the shower area tiled up to the ceiling.
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
Yes, they are not cheap. Roughly estimated at $1,500 - $3,000 per window, depending on the design.
I also installed two of these double-door casement windows. I believe that cost about $4,700 in total after adjustments.
I still regret it today. The open windows take up a huge amount of interior space; I would go with a sliding door now. Also a suggestion for you: maybe consider a larger sliding or lift-and-slide door with a fixed floor-to-ceiling window next to it. In my experience, you tend to use only one door to go outside.
6. Interior Plaster
Honestly: I would recommend a Q3 finish if you are sensitive to surface quality.
Best regards
Thorsten
Hello Mizit,
I’ll respond from the perspective of someone who has already been through this phase.
The standard seems reasonable to me, although I’m not sure if you really need an antenna socket and telephone connection in the kitchen. As for the difference between single and double sockets, it’s probably more about whether a shared or separate supply line is needed, rather than whether the sockets are installed in single or multiple frames. For example, in my kitchen with a range hood, dishwasher, oven, steam cooker, fridge/freezer combo, and under-cabinet lights, the standard setup works fine. However, I would ask about the cost of separate circuit protection for the appliances or whether it is included. Whether the offered upgrade makes sense depends on your needs and the price. If in doubt, you can often upgrade this later with your own work.
A thicker screed is more durable, but is it really necessary? Mine is about 5 cm (2 inches) with fiber reinforcement and holds up perfectly. 🙂
This will definitely be much more expensive with two full stories, but I no longer want to deal with sloped ceilings — especially since a 1 m (3 ft) knee wall is quite low, considering the floor build-up will likely reduce that height further.
What height is included in the standard? If it’s full ceiling height, you’d save some money by opting for just 1.6 m (5 ft 3 inches). Another question is whether there will be extra costs for installation (especially with larger tiles). Otherwise, I think you’re likely looking at savings of a few hundred rather than a thousand.
This will cost you a bit, but probably more in the low hundreds per window. Installation and fittings are already included in the standard, so only the larger glass or the extra sash will be charged.
If you plan to wallpaper, Q2 finish is sufficient – otherwise Q3 or even Q4 is better.
Good luck
K1300S
I’ll respond from the perspective of someone who has already been through this phase.
Mizit schrieb:
1. Electrical Planning
The standard seems reasonable to me, although I’m not sure if you really need an antenna socket and telephone connection in the kitchen. As for the difference between single and double sockets, it’s probably more about whether a shared or separate supply line is needed, rather than whether the sockets are installed in single or multiple frames. For example, in my kitchen with a range hood, dishwasher, oven, steam cooker, fridge/freezer combo, and under-cabinet lights, the standard setup works fine. However, I would ask about the cost of separate circuit protection for the appliances or whether it is included. Whether the offered upgrade makes sense depends on your needs and the price. If in doubt, you can often upgrade this later with your own work.
Mizit schrieb:
2. Screed
A thicker screed is more durable, but is it really necessary? Mine is about 5 cm (2 inches) with fiber reinforcement and holds up perfectly. 🙂
Mizit schrieb:
3. Knee Wall Height
This will definitely be much more expensive with two full stories, but I no longer want to deal with sloped ceilings — especially since a 1 m (3 ft) knee wall is quite low, considering the floor build-up will likely reduce that height further.
Mizit schrieb:
4. Bathroom Tiles
What height is included in the standard? If it’s full ceiling height, you’d save some money by opting for just 1.6 m (5 ft 3 inches). Another question is whether there will be extra costs for installation (especially with larger tiles). Otherwise, I think you’re likely looking at savings of a few hundred rather than a thousand.
Mizit schrieb:
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
This will cost you a bit, but probably more in the low hundreds per window. Installation and fittings are already included in the standard, so only the larger glass or the extra sash will be charged.
Mizit schrieb:
6. Interior Plaster
If you plan to wallpaper, Q2 finish is sufficient – otherwise Q3 or even Q4 is better.
Good luck
K1300S
Depending on the price, the upgrade is certainly not a bad choice.
But in my opinion, 8 sockets are more than enough... where do you plan to place them all? We have 9 in the children's rooms; in the kitchen, there are 10, plus additional ones for the extractor hood, oven, and stove. Your minimum standard is already quite good – there are providers who plan significantly fewer.
It's best to ask how much a socket costs. Don’t forget to ask about LAN outlets as well (even if it's only for the phone in the end).
Do you have underfloor heating? The coverage of the heating pipes is usually important – more coverage is certainly not bad; but I would strongly recommend asking what might be reduced because of that (for example, if the insulation is decreased).
We have a knee wall height of 1.6 m (5.2 ft), which is very comfortable... you can sit on the beds, and place cabinets and shelves (of course, not the 2 m (6.6 ft) tall ones). If you are able to build two stories, why don’t you do so?
What your builder offers is usually sufficient ;-) Just make sure it is firmly fixed in the contract.
Windows are not that expensive – the builder saves on bricks because of them.
You might consider lime-cement plaster... although if you plan to wallpaper anyway, there are many options available.
But in my opinion, 8 sockets are more than enough... where do you plan to place them all? We have 9 in the children's rooms; in the kitchen, there are 10, plus additional ones for the extractor hood, oven, and stove. Your minimum standard is already quite good – there are providers who plan significantly fewer.
It's best to ask how much a socket costs. Don’t forget to ask about LAN outlets as well (even if it's only for the phone in the end).
Do you have underfloor heating? The coverage of the heating pipes is usually important – more coverage is certainly not bad; but I would strongly recommend asking what might be reduced because of that (for example, if the insulation is decreased).
We have a knee wall height of 1.6 m (5.2 ft), which is very comfortable... you can sit on the beds, and place cabinets and shelves (of course, not the 2 m (6.6 ft) tall ones). If you are able to build two stories, why don’t you do so?
What your builder offers is usually sufficient ;-) Just make sure it is firmly fixed in the contract.
Windows are not that expensive – the builder saves on bricks because of them.
You might consider lime-cement plaster... although if you plan to wallpaper anyway, there are many options available.
T21150 schrieb:
1. Electrical Planning
Use your floor plan to think about where everything should go. You’ll quickly realize that your standard setup isn’t bad but something is missing here and there:
- You can never have enough power outlets
- Washing machine, dishwasher, dryer, heating/ventilation: separate power outlets
- Cross and two-way switches
- Light connections
- Outdoor electrical system (lighting, grilling, appliances, possibly 400V for electric car)
- Network connections
PS: Don’t forget an outdoor water tap.
2. Screed
It doesn’t add much in terms of insulation, but it’s more stable at 6mm (0.24 inches). If you plan a fireplace (stove), add reinforcement in that area.
3. Knee Wall
From the 1.40 m (4 ft 7 in), about 17 cm (7 inches) will be lost to the floor construction immediately. That doesn’t leave much. A 1.60 m (5 ft 3 in) or 1.80 m (5 ft 11 in) knee wall is better, especially for a bedroom bed, etc. I can’t say how much redesign will cost from here.
4. Bathroom Tiles
It could work; just ask for a quick calculation during the preliminary sampling appointment. By the way, I tiled the shower area up to the ceiling.
5. Floor-to-Ceiling Windows
Yes, those aren’t cheap. Rough estimate: $1,500 to $3,000 (USD) per window, depending on the design.
I installed two of those double-door windows myself; I believe it cost about $4,700 (USD) all in.
I still regret it. The windows take up a huge amount of interior space when open; today, I’d choose a sliding door instead. This is also a suggestion for you: maybe go for a larger sliding or lift-and-slide door with a fixed floor-to-ceiling window next to it. In my experience, you usually only use one door to go outside anyway.
6. Interior Plaster
Honestly, I’d recommend Q3 finish if you’re sensitive.
Best regards,
ThorstenT21150 schrieb:
1. Electrical Planning
Use your floor plan to think about where everything should go. You’ll quickly realize that your standard setup isn’t bad, but there are a few things missing here and there:
- You can never have enough power outlets
- Separate outlets for washing machine, dishwasher, dryer, heating/ventilation
- Cross and two-way switches
- Light connections
- Outdoor electrical system (lighting, grilling, appliances, possibly 400V for an electric car)
- Network connections
PS: Don’t forget an outdoor water tap.
A knee wall height of 1.60 or 1.80 meters (5.25 or 5.9 feet) is definitely better—for a bedroom, bed, etc.
I can’t say what the cost of redesigning would be from here.
5. Floor-to-ceiling Windows
Yep. These aren’t cheap. Rough estimate is 1,500 to 3,000 (currency) per window, depending on the design.
I also had two of these double-door wing windows installed. I think that ended up costing around 4,700 (currency) after adjustments.
I still regret it. When open, the windows take up a huge amount of interior space; today I would choose a sliding door instead. This could be a suggestion for you, maybe opt for a larger sliding or lift-and-slide door and a fixed floor-to-ceiling window next to it. From my experience, you usually only go outside through one door anyway.
6. Interior Plaster
Honestly, I would recommend Q3 finish if you are sensitive to surface quality.
ThorstenThank you!
Hmm, you really can’t have too many outlets. But I’m not sure that installing as many as possible is always necessary—they’re not exactly attractive. What surprised me was that, for example, there isn’t a triple outlet planned in the kids’ room. I’m electronically clueless, so could I just put four outlets next to each other where a desk might go?
What exactly do you mean by cross and two-way switches, and where do you need those?
Outdoor water tap sounds like a good point, noted.
Sliding door is a good idea too. Generally, it’s less about having the maximum variety of exit points and more about having the brightest rooms possible. Our rental flat spoils us with light, and lower light levels would definitely be noticeable in a negative way... but the budget limits this—an extra 20,000 euros (about 21,500 US dollars) for windows is rather out of reach.
Q3 finish if we are sensitive—what does sensitive mean exactly? We prefer wallpaper with some texture.
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