ᐅ Enlarging the Living Room / Extending the Concrete Ceiling?
Created on: 11 Nov 2019 14:26
S
spyfromtheeast
Hello everyone,
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
I recently moved into a relatively new house, built in 2016. The house is built with solid construction. The wall blocks are Gisoton blocks, 42cm (16.5 inches) thick. The house also has a full basement.
As usual, you only notice some of the less optimal aspects once you’re living in it. In my case, the living room is too small, so I would like to enlarge it. To do this, the basement below would probably also need to be expanded (at least in one direction), otherwise I would have to block up the basement windows. I did a quick sketch to show what that might look like:
As you can see, part of the garage would have to go. For the roof, I was thinking of a simple pitched roof that would connect to the main wall of the upper floor.
The question is whether it is even possible structurally to extend a concrete ceiling like this, or if that is generally not feasible? Maybe in our case it would also be possible to support the ceiling from below with a steel beam?
It would probably also be easier to enlarge the living room only toward the garage side rather than in two directions?
Overall, is it a bad idea to take something like this on, or is it doable?
I haven’t gone very far with my considerations yet, but before I approach an architect or structural engineer, I wanted to ask here first. Maybe there are some good suggestions as well. Of course, aside from the structural aspects, many other questions would have to be clarified (building permits / planning permissions, utilities, etc.).
Thanks, spyfromtheeast
S
spyfromtheeast13 Nov 2019 16:11Matthew03 schrieb:
Has the whole purpose ever been clearly explained somewhere instead of just "everything is too small for me"? I’m wondering what purpose you’re looking for. It’s quite a subjective matter. For others, that might be a huge living room; for me, it’s not.
Matthew03 schrieb:
I mean specifically? It’s already 4.20 by 5.20m (13.8 by 17.1 ft)! How is the furniture arranged? Which furniture is even supposed to fit into the new version? That’s going to be a ballroom without specific use for the extra space!
Is it purely a matter of feeling? Then of course no argument is needed. But if there is a clear practical purpose (which I might have missed), it should be presented in detail again to get some advice. There is a 4m (13.1 ft) wide sofa under the window, which extends about 2m (6.6 ft) down the left wall. The remaining 20cm (8 inches) of the width is filled by a floor-to-ceiling shelving unit on the right wall. The bottom left corner up to the door is a fitted wall unit that wraps around the corner and stretches from about 40cm (16 inches) past the end of the sofa to 10cm (4 inches) before the door. The TV is mounted on the wall to the left of the door.
If you can’t picture it, just let me know and I’ll be happy to draw it into the plan. Because the living room is unfortunately quite awkwardly shaped, it’s hard to arrange anything differently. As part of the extension, the wall at the top will be replaced with a floor-to-ceiling glass front, as large as possible.
Matthew03 schrieb:
Otherwise, this will be the most expensive private dance hall of the year for me. Maybe, perhaps I just like to dance. Surely I could also invest the money in a Porsche or something, but I don’t really need one.
kbt09 schrieb:
If you want to extend more than 90cm (35 inches) to the left, the first thing I would do is find someone who can definitively tell you how far you’re allowed to extend in that direction. Because what needs to be statically calculated depends on that extension. As I’ve said before, I have been to the city building department. So I assume that the 90cm (35 inches) limit is correct. I am not restricted to 90cm (35 inches) towards the garden.
Baufie schrieb:
I find this piecemeal approach to information very annoying. Just saying in advance. Sorry that I didn’t know in advance which questions would come and answered them one by one.
Baufie schrieb:
I would be interested in the complete plans of the basement and ground floor to get an overall idea of the current situation. I don’t quite understand why you’re interested in that. My focus is on the living room extension.
Baufie schrieb:
In your place, I would find a good structural engineer who is authorized for building approvals, if it’s just about this extension. I would save myself the architect’s fee then. I will probably start doing that in the next few weeks.
Baufie schrieb:
The basement won’t necessarily have to be enlarged. Unless you need the windows. And then a flat-roof extension on the ground floor. Having one window would be nice. Two like now are not necessary. That means the basement could also be extended in only one direction.
I actually don’t want a flat-roof extension but a normal pitched roof on the extension. See my drawing here:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/Wohnzimmer-vergroesseren-Betondecke-verlaengern.32837/post-356067
apokolok schrieb:
By the way, selling the house and buying a new one with a bigger living room will probably be cheaper.
It won’t work, really won’t... Yeah, maybe. If it doesn’t work out, it will probably come down to that.
The furniture layout is quite important because if steel beams are installed, new supports (columns) will need to be placed directly against the wall. This is very inconvenient for a sofa.
Therefore, the complete plans are essential to get an idea of the roof structure and overall static design.
You either make some compromises with columns, such as having them on only one side or blocking a basement window, or the project will cost six figures.
Even if you have the money: it’s better to build an impressive conservatory and buy the Porsche instead.
Therefore, the complete plans are essential to get an idea of the roof structure and overall static design.
You either make some compromises with columns, such as having them on only one side or blocking a basement window, or the project will cost six figures.
Even if you have the money: it’s better to build an impressive conservatory and buy the Porsche instead.
Tassimat schrieb:
Even if you have the money left over: Better build a really amazing conservatory and buy the Porsche instead. Yes, that’s what I’m saying. About one third of the length of the wall on the left side facing the neighbor, nearly 2 meters deep (about 6.5 feet) should be inside. Possibly open over two floors, which really gives a sense of spaciousness.
And please upload the plans for all floors now, plus one of the surroundings, otherwise it won’t work.
apokolok schrieb:
Selling your house and buying a new one with a bigger living room is probably cheaper anyway.C R U C I A L !!!spyfromtheeast schrieb:
I don’t quite understand why you’re interested in this. I was referring to the extension of the living room.The causal connection is called structural engineering.spyfromtheeast schrieb:
Maybe, I might just like dancing. Of course, I could also spend the money on a Porsche or something, but I don’t really need one.Sure—then better two Porsches for the structural engineer. There’s no way to earn money so effortlessly as to just throw it out the window with a particle accelerator.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I still haven’t seen how much budget you have for this!
And by the way, I also believe that building new is usually more cost-effective.
This is not a typical extension with its own foundation slab, where you can continue living in the rest of the house. The house will be uninhabitable for months.
You only see a bigger living room; I see:
- torn down and newly erected exterior walls
- broken up screed on almost the entire ground floor and probably the upper floor as well (which will be redone)
- new electrical wiring
- new flooring throughout the living area
- new underfloor heating due to the screed work
- the existing heating system might be too small for the additional space
- a new energy performance calculation (energy certificate / compliance document), possibly with a mandatory energy consultant involved in the future
- all new plastering, which will have color differences compared to the rest of the house
- excavation work
- waste disposal
- architect fees
- 10 months in temporary accommodation
- structural engineer costs with complex load-bearing measures
- and much, much more
And I haven’t even touched on the foundation slab and excavation yet. I can’t imagine how anyone wants to ensure that a new attached foundation slab will settle exactly the same way as the existing building.
From my point of view, you’re easily looking at over €100,000 if you even have 150 square meters (about 1,615 square feet) added, and you will not have any guarantee or warranty that no cracks will form between the original building and the extension.
The idea is completely unrealistic.
So you don’t feel personally attacked here: Have you considered a conservatory on the side instead? About 20 square meters (215 square feet) with a large wall opening (you will still need a structural engineer for this). But heating will still be difficult in that case as well.
And by the way, I also believe that building new is usually more cost-effective.
This is not a typical extension with its own foundation slab, where you can continue living in the rest of the house. The house will be uninhabitable for months.
You only see a bigger living room; I see:
- torn down and newly erected exterior walls
- broken up screed on almost the entire ground floor and probably the upper floor as well (which will be redone)
- new electrical wiring
- new flooring throughout the living area
- new underfloor heating due to the screed work
- the existing heating system might be too small for the additional space
- a new energy performance calculation (energy certificate / compliance document), possibly with a mandatory energy consultant involved in the future
- all new plastering, which will have color differences compared to the rest of the house
- excavation work
- waste disposal
- architect fees
- 10 months in temporary accommodation
- structural engineer costs with complex load-bearing measures
- and much, much more
And I haven’t even touched on the foundation slab and excavation yet. I can’t imagine how anyone wants to ensure that a new attached foundation slab will settle exactly the same way as the existing building.
From my point of view, you’re easily looking at over €100,000 if you even have 150 square meters (about 1,615 square feet) added, and you will not have any guarantee or warranty that no cracks will form between the original building and the extension.
The idea is completely unrealistic.
So you don’t feel personally attacked here: Have you considered a conservatory on the side instead? About 20 square meters (215 square feet) with a large wall opening (you will still need a structural engineer for this). But heating will still be difficult in that case as well.
Zaba12 schrieb:
Have you ever considered a conservatory on the side? 20 sqm (215 sq ft) with a large wall opening (you will need a structural engineer here as well).He’s not even sharing the floor plans.... maybe, for example, the existing terrace on the right side could be incorporated into the house. But without plans, nothing will work.Similar topics