Hello dear forum,
I need your advice on the following matter:
Last year, I had a house built through a general contractor. The contract did not include a canopy above the front door. Therefore, this year I arranged for a local craftsman to install a canopy, which I had configured and ordered through an online retailer. The installation by the craftsman was agreed upon separately.
When the craftsman was about to start the installation, I pointed out that there were cables in the area where the canopy would be mounted. I showed him a photo of the exterior wall before the plastering, after which the craftsman proposed a slightly higher position for the canopy compared to the original plan. I then said, "OK, let's do it that way." Unfortunately, it later turned out that a cable was still drilled into.
The craftsman’s position:
He claims no fault on his part, since I instructed him to install the canopy at that position. He could not have known that a cable was also located there. He places the responsibility on me as the client.
My position:
I am a layperson and have no knowledge of the exact methods for canopy installation or the usual rules for routing electrical wiring. Therefore, I am not able to assess a sensible mounting position. I saw the craftsman’s suggestion as expert advice, which I accepted. If something goes wrong, then he is the one responsible.
Since this might involve significant costs, I would be grateful for advice, possibly including references to legal principles.
I need your advice on the following matter:
Last year, I had a house built through a general contractor. The contract did not include a canopy above the front door. Therefore, this year I arranged for a local craftsman to install a canopy, which I had configured and ordered through an online retailer. The installation by the craftsman was agreed upon separately.
When the craftsman was about to start the installation, I pointed out that there were cables in the area where the canopy would be mounted. I showed him a photo of the exterior wall before the plastering, after which the craftsman proposed a slightly higher position for the canopy compared to the original plan. I then said, "OK, let's do it that way." Unfortunately, it later turned out that a cable was still drilled into.
The craftsman’s position:
He claims no fault on his part, since I instructed him to install the canopy at that position. He could not have known that a cable was also located there. He places the responsibility on me as the client.
My position:
I am a layperson and have no knowledge of the exact methods for canopy installation or the usual rules for routing electrical wiring. Therefore, I am not able to assess a sensible mounting position. I saw the craftsman’s suggestion as expert advice, which I accepted. If something goes wrong, then he is the one responsible.
Since this might involve significant costs, I would be grateful for advice, possibly including references to legal principles.
K
k-man20213 Sep 2021 20:55In my opinion, it looks like this: if you clearly pointed out the location of the cables when placing the order (for example, in the written contract), the contractor is responsible for any damage. They should have maintained a safe distance, used a cable detector, or declined the job if necessary.
However, if the contractor agreed with you on the drilling locations, you essentially approved those positions, and I would place the responsibility with you.
I’m not a lawyer, but I come from industrial plant construction, where similar situations occur frequently. How you ultimately resolve this is another matter.
However, if the contractor agreed with you on the drilling locations, you essentially approved those positions, and I would place the responsibility with you.
I’m not a lawyer, but I come from industrial plant construction, where similar situations occur frequently. How you ultimately resolve this is another matter.
T
Traumfaenger3 Sep 2021 21:49Musketier schrieb:
Especially since it does not need to be clarified whether it is actually a skilled trade service. drno1234 schrieb:
This is an official contract and not a voluntary service. My impression is that no appropriately qualified and registered craftsman was hired here. At least, no clear statement on this has been made in the comments so far. According to case law as I know it, the client can be accused of a lack of due diligence when selecting the craftsman and is therefore liable for damages caused to third parties by this craftsman. I assume the same would apply to damages that occurred to the client themselves. But perhaps a legal expert might clarify this further.
k-man2021 schrieb:
However, if the contractor has agreed with you on the exact location of the drillings, you have approved the position, and I consider the responsibility to be yours.This is the same argument the contractor makes. If you follow that logic to the end, the client would always be at fault, no matter what the contractor does, since the client always gives the "go-ahead" for the work to be carried out—otherwise the job would not even start. In my view, this is not a sound argument. That is precisely why precedent cases would be interesting...
H
HilfeHilfe4 Sep 2021 08:11drno1234 schrieb:
Hi everyone,
- This is an official contract, not a voluntary service.
- The cable was not visible because it was installed beneath the insulation.
- The position was not fixed but varied in height.
I'm actually surprised that there isn’t a clear consensus here. This kind of thing surely happens multiple times a day...
Still, thanks for the comments so far. You won’t get a clear answer here either! It’s like in court or on the high seas. You might stay afloat, but you could also sink.
For me, it’s a 50% chance!
Do you want to sue now? Probably not. How much is the damage? Have you estimated it yet?
HilfeHilfe schrieb:
You can either come out on top or go under.
For me, it’s a 50% chance! At first instance, I basically see it the same way, and I suspect the amount in dispute falls within the jurisdiction of a local court. The judge handling it will be dealing with cases ranging from handbag snatching to bicycle accidents. It’s essentially random—like which foot the judge got out of bed with, or whether the boiled egg was cooked perfectly. However, I don’t see the odds as 50:50, but rather 30:40:30 (win:settlement:loss). If you have a better lawyer on your side, that might improve to 32:40:28, and that’s about it. A lawyer who isn’t overwhelmed will probably advise an out-of-court settlement.
drno1234 schrieb:
Since this might involve significant costs, I would appreciate some advice (possibly including references to legal basics). It should be clear by now: you won’t be able to pull out of your pocket the desired section 4711 of the “I’mRight” code book containing the content “the other party can pack their bags,” any more than you can draw the Monopoly Community Chest card “Go directly to jail—do not pass Go, do not collect $200” ;-)
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