Hello everyone,
this is my third post in this forum. First of all, thank you for the valuable tips I have already received. I think I have learned a lot so far.
I have linked the previous posts below. To avoid any misunderstandings, I will list all the necessary information again. Therefore, reading the old posts only makes limited sense. For completeness, I have included them here.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundrissplanung-Bungalow-170qm.31445/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grobe-Grundstücksplanung-819m.31558/
For the initial selection, there were three rough floor plan drafts. One was from Yvonne, the second from kbt09, and the third from the planner/ourselves. Many thanks to both of you for the good ideas! After some time for consideration and consultation with the developer, we decided to pursue the third floor plan.
Now to the main topic.
At the end of April 2019, we reserved a plot (plot no. 10) and started working on the floor plan. The plot is tied to the developer, and unfortunately, the planner has not turned out to be very creative (myself included). Two weeks ago, we had another meeting with the developer and talked about the three options mentioned above. We then chose one variant and want to proceed with it. We have now received a draft, which certainly still needs improvement.
For this reason, I would like to present the floor plan here again for discussion and hope for feedback, ideas, suggestions, and tips. Maybe you will immediately see things that “just don’t work” or are not practical for everyday life. I have also already noticed a few things that I would change, but since we will probably make quite a few modifications anyway, I have not yet suggested my own improvements in the floor plan. Also, the planner and I have not yet discussed doors and windows.
Attached again is the completed questionnaire.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 819m² (8809 sq ft)
Slope: NO
Floor area ratio (FAR): 0.4 (allowable exceedance 25 per 100)
Gross floor area ratio (GFAR): 0.6
Building envelope, building line and boundary: On the northeast side approximately 31m (102 ft) deep, west side approximately 35m (115 ft) deep, plot frontage on the street 18.7m (61 ft) and rear boundary (development limit) approximately 27m (89 ft). The major challenge with the plot is the narrow width at the front. Depending on house orientation, after the 3m (10 ft) building setback on the street side, we have about 19.5m (64 ft) to 20.4m (67 ft) available. This means that if the house is parallel to the street, it is 19.5m (64 ft), and parallel to the neighbor in the northeast direction about 20.1m (66 ft).
Side building setback: 3m (10 ft)
Number of parking spaces required: no specification
Number of floors: maximum 2 full floors
Roof type: gable roof, hip roof
Other requirements: Garage must be at least 5m (16 ft) from the property boundary.
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: bungalow with hip roof
Basement, floors: no basement due to high groundwater level
Number of people, age: 4 people aged 36 years (female), 37 years (male), 2 years (child), 7 months (child)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor: living/dining/kitchen, utility room, guest toilet with shower, hallway with coat area and stairs to the upper floor, children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom, and storage room.
Upper floor: office, children’s playroom and additional storage space.
Office: family use or home office? home office
Overnight guests per year: 1–2 times
Open or closed floor plan: a mix of both
Conservative or modern design: a mix of both
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with island would be nice but not a must, closed kitchen also has advantages
Number of dining seats: 4, with the option for 6–8 would be nice but not essential
Fireplace: no
Music/sound wall: sound system in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: Space for 2 cars is required. Currently, I am considering a garage (3x6m / 10x20 ft) and carport (3.6m / 12 ft).
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special requirements/daily routine, including reasons for preferences or restrictions
House design
Who designed the plan:
-Developer’s planner / do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why?
-There should be enough space in the coat area and behind the stairs to store jackets, shoes, etc.
-The children’s rooms have a comfortable size and are practically equal in size.
-Living room/kitchen are close to entrance and garage.
-The storage room has a good (central) location.
-
What do you not like? Why?
-Garage/carport is very far to the back (but I can probably live with this)
-The utility room is comparatively large and long
-The kitchen in my opinion is somewhat too large
-The living room is only the desired minimum size and could use 5m² (54 sq ft) more
-The main bathroom is located between both children’s rooms and the noise from showering and toilet use is likely to be a major issue
-The main bathroom could be slightly larger
-Between the garage and the property boundary there will be a dead space where weeds will probably grow later. Does anyone have ideas on how to prevent this?
-The garage is currently planned with a length of 9m (30 ft), of which 6m (20 ft) is for the garage and 3m (10 ft) for a storage room. The current position directly behind the garage is not optimal in my view
Price estimate according to architect/planner: no new price estimate received yet
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 400,000
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
Why is the design the way it is now? e.g.
ideas from planner and do-it-yourself ideas from me
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
The main bathroom is located between the children’s rooms. How can we reduce noise disturbance to a minimum?
Imagine I drive a Skoda Superb into the garage. Since the garage is on the property boundary and the driveway narrows between the house and property line, I have to enter at a slight angle. Does this cause problems in everyday life? See pictures.
Assuming we build a double garage directly attached to the bungalow instead of a garage and carport, is there anything special to consider during construction?
this is my third post in this forum. First of all, thank you for the valuable tips I have already received. I think I have learned a lot so far.
I have linked the previous posts below. To avoid any misunderstandings, I will list all the necessary information again. Therefore, reading the old posts only makes limited sense. For completeness, I have included them here.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundrissplanung-Bungalow-170qm.31445/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grobe-Grundstücksplanung-819m.31558/
For the initial selection, there were three rough floor plan drafts. One was from Yvonne, the second from kbt09, and the third from the planner/ourselves. Many thanks to both of you for the good ideas! After some time for consideration and consultation with the developer, we decided to pursue the third floor plan.
ypg schrieb:
If I say that the plot is not easy, I am understated.
Maybe this is an approach?
kbt09 schrieb:
I continued with the approach from the floor plan adjustments.
Now to the main topic.
At the end of April 2019, we reserved a plot (plot no. 10) and started working on the floor plan. The plot is tied to the developer, and unfortunately, the planner has not turned out to be very creative (myself included). Two weeks ago, we had another meeting with the developer and talked about the three options mentioned above. We then chose one variant and want to proceed with it. We have now received a draft, which certainly still needs improvement.
For this reason, I would like to present the floor plan here again for discussion and hope for feedback, ideas, suggestions, and tips. Maybe you will immediately see things that “just don’t work” or are not practical for everyday life. I have also already noticed a few things that I would change, but since we will probably make quite a few modifications anyway, I have not yet suggested my own improvements in the floor plan. Also, the planner and I have not yet discussed doors and windows.
Attached again is the completed questionnaire.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 819m² (8809 sq ft)
Slope: NO
Floor area ratio (FAR): 0.4 (allowable exceedance 25 per 100)
Gross floor area ratio (GFAR): 0.6
Building envelope, building line and boundary: On the northeast side approximately 31m (102 ft) deep, west side approximately 35m (115 ft) deep, plot frontage on the street 18.7m (61 ft) and rear boundary (development limit) approximately 27m (89 ft). The major challenge with the plot is the narrow width at the front. Depending on house orientation, after the 3m (10 ft) building setback on the street side, we have about 19.5m (64 ft) to 20.4m (67 ft) available. This means that if the house is parallel to the street, it is 19.5m (64 ft), and parallel to the neighbor in the northeast direction about 20.1m (66 ft).
Side building setback: 3m (10 ft)
Number of parking spaces required: no specification
Number of floors: maximum 2 full floors
Roof type: gable roof, hip roof
Other requirements: Garage must be at least 5m (16 ft) from the property boundary.
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: bungalow with hip roof
Basement, floors: no basement due to high groundwater level
Number of people, age: 4 people aged 36 years (female), 37 years (male), 2 years (child), 7 months (child)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor: living/dining/kitchen, utility room, guest toilet with shower, hallway with coat area and stairs to the upper floor, children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom, and storage room.
Upper floor: office, children’s playroom and additional storage space.
Office: family use or home office? home office
Overnight guests per year: 1–2 times
Open or closed floor plan: a mix of both
Conservative or modern design: a mix of both
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with island would be nice but not a must, closed kitchen also has advantages
Number of dining seats: 4, with the option for 6–8 would be nice but not essential
Fireplace: no
Music/sound wall: sound system in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: Space for 2 cars is required. Currently, I am considering a garage (3x6m / 10x20 ft) and carport (3.6m / 12 ft).
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special requirements/daily routine, including reasons for preferences or restrictions
House design
Who designed the plan:
-Developer’s planner / do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why?
-There should be enough space in the coat area and behind the stairs to store jackets, shoes, etc.
-The children’s rooms have a comfortable size and are practically equal in size.
-Living room/kitchen are close to entrance and garage.
-The storage room has a good (central) location.
-
What do you not like? Why?
-Garage/carport is very far to the back (but I can probably live with this)
-The utility room is comparatively large and long
-The kitchen in my opinion is somewhat too large
-The living room is only the desired minimum size and could use 5m² (54 sq ft) more
-The main bathroom is located between both children’s rooms and the noise from showering and toilet use is likely to be a major issue
-The main bathroom could be slightly larger
-Between the garage and the property boundary there will be a dead space where weeds will probably grow later. Does anyone have ideas on how to prevent this?
-The garage is currently planned with a length of 9m (30 ft), of which 6m (20 ft) is for the garage and 3m (10 ft) for a storage room. The current position directly behind the garage is not optimal in my view
Price estimate according to architect/planner: no new price estimate received yet
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 400,000
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
Why is the design the way it is now? e.g.
ideas from planner and do-it-yourself ideas from me
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
The main bathroom is located between the children’s rooms. How can we reduce noise disturbance to a minimum?
Imagine I drive a Skoda Superb into the garage. Since the garage is on the property boundary and the driveway narrows between the house and property line, I have to enter at a slight angle. Does this cause problems in everyday life? See pictures.
Assuming we build a double garage directly attached to the bungalow instead of a garage and carport, is there anything special to consider during construction?
As long as no one goes to the refrigerator, the dog keeps sleeping.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I am a bit confused that we are now discussing a design where the bathroom is almost public (at least in terms of its location in a household of four), while Kerstin’s layout is already close to optimal.
Everyone has their own perspective. A hip roof is rather plain and only allows for double casement windows. A gable roof is, well, a gable roof— it looks clearly more modern, is more versatile, and offers the possibility to create living spaces under the roof. That would NOT be permitted in your version!
Office + playroom… you can sugarcoat it and, for example, not declare it to the authorities. But if the house ever catches fire or fills with smoke and your kids can’t get out, you’ll have nobody to blame but yourself.
Kerstin, in this case, the position of the stairs is not very relevant since there is no bedroom upstairs.
And what do you want? Or, put differently: why does he want 10 sq m (108 sq ft)?
Cost at this scale of house is relative. Do you know how expensive the supply line per meter will be? It might be only €15/m (about $16/yd), or it could be €150/m (about $160/yd). Your driveway will likely be more expensive.
Chrisi1906 schrieb:
A bungalow with a gable roof looks like a barrack to me, but maybe I’m just being too narrow-minded.
Everyone has their own perspective. A hip roof is rather plain and only allows for double casement windows. A gable roof is, well, a gable roof— it looks clearly more modern, is more versatile, and offers the possibility to create living spaces under the roof. That would NOT be permitted in your version!
Office + playroom… you can sugarcoat it and, for example, not declare it to the authorities. But if the house ever catches fire or fills with smoke and your kids can’t get out, you’ll have nobody to blame but yourself.
kbt09 schrieb:
Staircase directly next to the front door
Kerstin, in this case, the position of the stairs is not very relevant since there is no bedroom upstairs.
Chrisi1906 schrieb:
The builder wants the utility room to be at least 10m² (108 sq ft). Can this be done together with the large bathroom?
And what do you want? Or, put differently: why does he want 10 sq m (108 sq ft)?
Chrisi1906 schrieb:
The utility room is supposed to be at the front of the plot according to the builder, as it would otherwise be more expensive.
Cost at this scale of house is relative. Do you know how expensive the supply line per meter will be? It might be only €15/m (about $16/yd), or it could be €150/m (about $160/yd). Your driveway will likely be more expensive.
J
j.bautsch14 Aug 2019 18:16roomsketcher is actually a great program, and I mainly use it as well.
However, you always need to pay attention to the dimensions of the furniture. Except for kitchen cabinets, which usually conform to the standard size of 60cm (24 inches), most pieces are more like dollhouse scale and need to be adjusted. The dining table and sofa will definitely be larger or deeper in reality. The same applies to many bathroom fittings and furniture, and you also need to be careful with bed sizes.
Hopefully, the kitchen is not actually planned as shown here; the island is not deep enough, and the distance to the countertop run is far too small. And what are these corner details at the ends of the countertop runs supposed to achieve?
Once you’ve adjusted all the measurements, you’ll see that the space is no longer as generous as it might appear now (although it might still work).
However, you always need to pay attention to the dimensions of the furniture. Except for kitchen cabinets, which usually conform to the standard size of 60cm (24 inches), most pieces are more like dollhouse scale and need to be adjusted. The dining table and sofa will definitely be larger or deeper in reality. The same applies to many bathroom fittings and furniture, and you also need to be careful with bed sizes.
Hopefully, the kitchen is not actually planned as shown here; the island is not deep enough, and the distance to the countertop run is far too small. And what are these corner details at the ends of the countertop runs supposed to achieve?
Once you’ve adjusted all the measurements, you’ll see that the space is no longer as generous as it might appear now (although it might still work).
C
Chrisi190614 Aug 2019 18:57ypg schrieb:
I’m a bit confused that now a layout is being discussed where the bathroom is almost public (at least considering it’s a four-person household), especially since Kerstin’s design is already close to optimal.
Everyone has their own perspective. A hip roof is rather traditional and only allows for double casement windows. A gable roof is a gable roof—it looks clearly more modern, is more versatile, and allows for creating living spaces under the roof. That would NOT BE ALLOWED in your version!
Office + playroom… you can fool yourself and, for example, not mention it to the authorities. But if the house catches fire or fills with smoke and your kids can’t get out, you’re done for.
Kerstin, in this case, the staircase position isn’t that relevant since there are no bedrooms on the upper floor.
And what do you want? Or to put it differently: why does he want 10 sqm (107 sq ft)?
Cost is relatively minor at this house size. Do you know how “expensive” the utility lines are per meter? It might be only €15/m (€4.57/ft) or it could be €150/m (€45.7/ft). Your driveway is more expensive anyway. The design is very good, no question. But two things bother me…
1. Washer and dryer close to the children’s rooms. As I said, once my wife goes back to work, she’ll mostly do laundry in the evenings.
2. Both bathrooms should have a shower, and one should have a bathtub as well.
I suspect the builder wants 10 sqm (107 sq ft) because of my requests: later photovoltaic system + possibly battery storage, network cabling in every room (double outlets in each room, ventilation system).
The builder told me something like 2,000 euros per utility connection based on the usual 3 meters (10 ft). I don’t know how much more it costs if the utility room is further back. Maybe I’m overestimating the extra costs. :-/ ?
I know the driveway is expensive. But it also has the advantage that two additional cars can still park there later (when the kids have their driver’s licenses and still live with us). You have to be very careful driving in and out, though.
Although no bedroom is planned upstairs, the space will still be used as a home office and play/reading corner, especially once I spend more time in the house. I prefer it when you come up from the center of the ground floor rather than from somewhere next to the front door.
A washing machine in the hallway can still be arranged as a stacked unit and placed in a sort of "dirty laundry corner." However, my Miele is located in the middle of the apartment; I barely hear it spin, and the washing machine area in the hallway doesn’t share a wall with any bedroom.
In your last furnished layout, @Chrisi1906, the dining table seems too close to the kitchen, at least as far as can be judged without dimensions. (Total width of your kitchen/dining area is roughly 5m (16 feet) or so).
I also agree with Yvonne that your bathrooms are positioned too far towards the "public" areas of the house.
A washing machine in the hallway can still be arranged as a stacked unit and placed in a sort of "dirty laundry corner." However, my Miele is located in the middle of the apartment; I barely hear it spin, and the washing machine area in the hallway doesn’t share a wall with any bedroom.
In your last furnished layout, @Chrisi1906, the dining table seems too close to the kitchen, at least as far as can be judged without dimensions. (Total width of your kitchen/dining area is roughly 5m (16 feet) or so).
I also agree with Yvonne that your bathrooms are positioned too far towards the "public" areas of the house.
C
Chrisi190614 Aug 2019 19:05kbt09 schrieb:
Washing machine in the hallway... You can still plan it as a stacked unit and place it in the "dirty laundry corner." But my Miele is right in the middle of the apartment; I barely hear it while spinning, and the washing machine area in the hallway doesn’t share a wall with any bedroom.
In your last furnished version, @Chrisi1906, the dining table is too close to the kitchen as far as can be judged without exact dimensions. (Overall width of your kitchen/dining area is about 5m (16 feet) or so).
I also agree with Yvonne that your bathrooms are located too far in the "public" area.I will do a noise test tonight or as soon as the washing machine/dryer runs. We have Siemens for the washing machine and Bosch for the dryer. The dryer was quite affordable, but the washing machine was comparatively expensive. Maybe Miele is quieter?
According to my wife, the washing machine is only loud when spinning, whereas the dryer is always noisy.
So, should the children's rooms be on the upper floor and the bathroom back in between?
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