Hello everyone,
this is my third post in this forum. First of all, thank you for the valuable tips I have already received. I think I have learned a lot so far.
I have linked the previous posts below. To avoid any misunderstandings, I will list all the necessary information again. Therefore, reading the old posts only makes limited sense. For completeness, I have included them here.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundrissplanung-Bungalow-170qm.31445/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grobe-Grundstücksplanung-819m.31558/
For the initial selection, there were three rough floor plan drafts. One was from Yvonne, the second from kbt09, and the third from the planner/ourselves. Many thanks to both of you for the good ideas! After some time for consideration and consultation with the developer, we decided to pursue the third floor plan.
Now to the main topic.
At the end of April 2019, we reserved a plot (plot no. 10) and started working on the floor plan. The plot is tied to the developer, and unfortunately, the planner has not turned out to be very creative (myself included). Two weeks ago, we had another meeting with the developer and talked about the three options mentioned above. We then chose one variant and want to proceed with it. We have now received a draft, which certainly still needs improvement.
For this reason, I would like to present the floor plan here again for discussion and hope for feedback, ideas, suggestions, and tips. Maybe you will immediately see things that “just don’t work” or are not practical for everyday life. I have also already noticed a few things that I would change, but since we will probably make quite a few modifications anyway, I have not yet suggested my own improvements in the floor plan. Also, the planner and I have not yet discussed doors and windows.
Attached again is the completed questionnaire.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 819m² (8809 sq ft)
Slope: NO
Floor area ratio (FAR): 0.4 (allowable exceedance 25 per 100)
Gross floor area ratio (GFAR): 0.6
Building envelope, building line and boundary: On the northeast side approximately 31m (102 ft) deep, west side approximately 35m (115 ft) deep, plot frontage on the street 18.7m (61 ft) and rear boundary (development limit) approximately 27m (89 ft). The major challenge with the plot is the narrow width at the front. Depending on house orientation, after the 3m (10 ft) building setback on the street side, we have about 19.5m (64 ft) to 20.4m (67 ft) available. This means that if the house is parallel to the street, it is 19.5m (64 ft), and parallel to the neighbor in the northeast direction about 20.1m (66 ft).
Side building setback: 3m (10 ft)
Number of parking spaces required: no specification
Number of floors: maximum 2 full floors
Roof type: gable roof, hip roof
Other requirements: Garage must be at least 5m (16 ft) from the property boundary.
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: bungalow with hip roof
Basement, floors: no basement due to high groundwater level
Number of people, age: 4 people aged 36 years (female), 37 years (male), 2 years (child), 7 months (child)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor: living/dining/kitchen, utility room, guest toilet with shower, hallway with coat area and stairs to the upper floor, children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom, and storage room.
Upper floor: office, children’s playroom and additional storage space.
Office: family use or home office? home office
Overnight guests per year: 1–2 times
Open or closed floor plan: a mix of both
Conservative or modern design: a mix of both
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with island would be nice but not a must, closed kitchen also has advantages
Number of dining seats: 4, with the option for 6–8 would be nice but not essential
Fireplace: no
Music/sound wall: sound system in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: Space for 2 cars is required. Currently, I am considering a garage (3x6m / 10x20 ft) and carport (3.6m / 12 ft).
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special requirements/daily routine, including reasons for preferences or restrictions
House design
Who designed the plan:
-Developer’s planner / do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why?
-There should be enough space in the coat area and behind the stairs to store jackets, shoes, etc.
-The children’s rooms have a comfortable size and are practically equal in size.
-Living room/kitchen are close to entrance and garage.
-The storage room has a good (central) location.
-
What do you not like? Why?
-Garage/carport is very far to the back (but I can probably live with this)
-The utility room is comparatively large and long
-The kitchen in my opinion is somewhat too large
-The living room is only the desired minimum size and could use 5m² (54 sq ft) more
-The main bathroom is located between both children’s rooms and the noise from showering and toilet use is likely to be a major issue
-The main bathroom could be slightly larger
-Between the garage and the property boundary there will be a dead space where weeds will probably grow later. Does anyone have ideas on how to prevent this?
-The garage is currently planned with a length of 9m (30 ft), of which 6m (20 ft) is for the garage and 3m (10 ft) for a storage room. The current position directly behind the garage is not optimal in my view
Price estimate according to architect/planner: no new price estimate received yet
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 400,000
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
Why is the design the way it is now? e.g.
ideas from planner and do-it-yourself ideas from me
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
The main bathroom is located between the children’s rooms. How can we reduce noise disturbance to a minimum?
Imagine I drive a Skoda Superb into the garage. Since the garage is on the property boundary and the driveway narrows between the house and property line, I have to enter at a slight angle. Does this cause problems in everyday life? See pictures.
Assuming we build a double garage directly attached to the bungalow instead of a garage and carport, is there anything special to consider during construction?
this is my third post in this forum. First of all, thank you for the valuable tips I have already received. I think I have learned a lot so far.
I have linked the previous posts below. To avoid any misunderstandings, I will list all the necessary information again. Therefore, reading the old posts only makes limited sense. For completeness, I have included them here.
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundrissplanung-Bungalow-170qm.31445/
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grobe-Grundstücksplanung-819m.31558/
For the initial selection, there were three rough floor plan drafts. One was from Yvonne, the second from kbt09, and the third from the planner/ourselves. Many thanks to both of you for the good ideas! After some time for consideration and consultation with the developer, we decided to pursue the third floor plan.
ypg schrieb:
If I say that the plot is not easy, I am understated.
Maybe this is an approach?
kbt09 schrieb:
I continued with the approach from the floor plan adjustments.
Now to the main topic.
At the end of April 2019, we reserved a plot (plot no. 10) and started working on the floor plan. The plot is tied to the developer, and unfortunately, the planner has not turned out to be very creative (myself included). Two weeks ago, we had another meeting with the developer and talked about the three options mentioned above. We then chose one variant and want to proceed with it. We have now received a draft, which certainly still needs improvement.
For this reason, I would like to present the floor plan here again for discussion and hope for feedback, ideas, suggestions, and tips. Maybe you will immediately see things that “just don’t work” or are not practical for everyday life. I have also already noticed a few things that I would change, but since we will probably make quite a few modifications anyway, I have not yet suggested my own improvements in the floor plan. Also, the planner and I have not yet discussed doors and windows.
Attached again is the completed questionnaire.
Development plan/restrictions
Plot size: 819m² (8809 sq ft)
Slope: NO
Floor area ratio (FAR): 0.4 (allowable exceedance 25 per 100)
Gross floor area ratio (GFAR): 0.6
Building envelope, building line and boundary: On the northeast side approximately 31m (102 ft) deep, west side approximately 35m (115 ft) deep, plot frontage on the street 18.7m (61 ft) and rear boundary (development limit) approximately 27m (89 ft). The major challenge with the plot is the narrow width at the front. Depending on house orientation, after the 3m (10 ft) building setback on the street side, we have about 19.5m (64 ft) to 20.4m (67 ft) available. This means that if the house is parallel to the street, it is 19.5m (64 ft), and parallel to the neighbor in the northeast direction about 20.1m (66 ft).
Side building setback: 3m (10 ft)
Number of parking spaces required: no specification
Number of floors: maximum 2 full floors
Roof type: gable roof, hip roof
Other requirements: Garage must be at least 5m (16 ft) from the property boundary.
Client requirements
Style, roof shape, building type: bungalow with hip roof
Basement, floors: no basement due to high groundwater level
Number of people, age: 4 people aged 36 years (female), 37 years (male), 2 years (child), 7 months (child)
Room requirements on ground floor and upper floor:
Ground floor: living/dining/kitchen, utility room, guest toilet with shower, hallway with coat area and stairs to the upper floor, children’s rooms, master bedroom, bathroom, and storage room.
Upper floor: office, children’s playroom and additional storage space.
Office: family use or home office? home office
Overnight guests per year: 1–2 times
Open or closed floor plan: a mix of both
Conservative or modern design: a mix of both
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen with island would be nice but not a must, closed kitchen also has advantages
Number of dining seats: 4, with the option for 6–8 would be nice but not essential
Fireplace: no
Music/sound wall: sound system in the living room
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Garage, carport: Space for 2 cars is required. Currently, I am considering a garage (3x6m / 10x20 ft) and carport (3.6m / 12 ft).
Kitchen garden, greenhouse: no
Other wishes/special requirements/daily routine, including reasons for preferences or restrictions
House design
Who designed the plan:
-Developer’s planner / do-it-yourself
What do you particularly like? Why?
-There should be enough space in the coat area and behind the stairs to store jackets, shoes, etc.
-The children’s rooms have a comfortable size and are practically equal in size.
-Living room/kitchen are close to entrance and garage.
-The storage room has a good (central) location.
-
What do you not like? Why?
-Garage/carport is very far to the back (but I can probably live with this)
-The utility room is comparatively large and long
-The kitchen in my opinion is somewhat too large
-The living room is only the desired minimum size and could use 5m² (54 sq ft) more
-The main bathroom is located between both children’s rooms and the noise from showering and toilet use is likely to be a major issue
-The main bathroom could be slightly larger
-Between the garage and the property boundary there will be a dead space where weeds will probably grow later. Does anyone have ideas on how to prevent this?
-The garage is currently planned with a length of 9m (30 ft), of which 6m (20 ft) is for the garage and 3m (10 ft) for a storage room. The current position directly behind the garage is not optimal in my view
Price estimate according to architect/planner: no new price estimate received yet
Personal price limit for the house including equipment: 400,000
Preferred heating technology: heat pump
Why is the design the way it is now? e.g.
ideas from planner and do-it-yourself ideas from me
What is the most important/basic question about the floor plan summarized in 130 characters?
The main bathroom is located between the children’s rooms. How can we reduce noise disturbance to a minimum?
Imagine I drive a Skoda Superb into the garage. Since the garage is on the property boundary and the driveway narrows between the house and property line, I have to enter at a slight angle. Does this cause problems in everyday life? See pictures.
Assuming we build a double garage directly attached to the bungalow instead of a garage and carport, is there anything special to consider during construction?
Chrisi1906 schrieb:
If the house costs €213,000 for 166m² (1786 sq ft) according to the developer?Ah, that was the humorous part of this thread, why I don't bother with detailed planning.
kbt09 schrieb:
First of all, a hip roof... have you considered the pitch? And the space it creates and how poorly lit it is under the roof?If I remember correctly, this is the plot where a relatively steep roof pitch turns that bungalow into a huge house. But I might be confusing the plot.
Dear original poster: Was it one of your threads where I advised not to build a bungalow because of the size and roof pitch?
In some thread, the wish conflicts with the roof pitch – I just can’t recall which one, oops.
C
Chrisi190614 Aug 2019 13:09kbt09 schrieb:
First of all, a hip roof… have you considered the pitch? And the space it creates, as well as how difficult it is to get good lighting under the roof?
For example, 38° on the long sides, 45° on the short sides
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_WalmdachAnsicht2.jpg"]37426[/ATTACH] [ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_WalmdachAnsicht1.jpg"]37427[/ATTACH]
results in the following possible floor plan
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Walmdach.jpg"]37428[/ATTACH]
You can see the 1m (3.3 ft) and 2m (6.6 ft) lines. To still have decent lighting, roof windows would need to be installed roughly at the 1m (3.3 ft) line.
-------------------------------
For comparison, here are gable roofs, where I deliberately left the "openings" that exceed normal ceiling height.
38° pitch
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach38Ansicht2.jpg"]37432[/ATTACH] [ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach38Ansicht1.jpg"]37433[/ATTACH]
leads to over 100 sqm (1076 sq ft) of living space
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach38_Grundriss.jpg"]37434[/ATTACH]
28° pitch
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28Ansicht2.jpg"]37430[/ATTACH] [ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28Ansicht1.jpg"]37429[/ATTACH]
still results in 75 sqm (807 sq ft) of living space
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28_Grundriss.jpg"]37431[/ATTACH]
Therefore, I would advise you to reconsider choosing a hip roof very carefully.Our life won’t take place in the attic. As I said, up there is just the office and playroom. If you build a basement, you hardly get any natural light there either. It will be the same for us in the attic. My wife pointed out that roof windows are really hard to clean. That is definitely a disadvantage.
A bungalow with a gable roof looks like a barrack to me, but maybe I’m being too narrow-minded.
C
Chrisi190614 Aug 2019 13:12ypg schrieb:
Ah, that was the humorous part in this thread about why I don’t bother with detailed planning.
If I remember correctly, this is the plot where the relatively steep roof pitch turns the bungalow into a huge building. But I might be mistaken about the plot.
Dear original poster: was it in one of your threads where I advised against building a bungalow because of the size and roof pitch? In some thread, the wish clashes with the roof pitch—I just can’t remember which one ops:But I also said that we can spend 400,000 just on the house. That was okay at first, right? I can’t change the fact that the developer has listed this amount of €213,000 for 166m² (1,786 sq ft) in the first and so far only offer.
ypg schrieb:
Ah, that was the humor in this thread, why I don’t bother with detailed planning.Yes, I think you were well advised there. When I read things like this:
Chrisi1906 schrieb:
I find the living room too small total about 59m² (635 sq ft)Chrisi1906 schrieb:
The house will be located quite far to the right on the plot (west side). That’s exactly how it stands – the dimensions were not recognized. Apparently, nobody really takes the time to look at the details carefully. I could still fit in a rectangular shape and a storage room, but it’s not really worth it.
I suspect the staircase will soon be removed and the attic will remain unfinished. I get the feeling the original poster hasn’t addressed the actual costs yet. The quotes are being accepted 1:1 as final. Will that work out well?
I’d recommend grabbing the detailed scope of work and reading through this thread as far as possible:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/warum-ein-Hausbau-fast-immer-teurer-kommt-als-kalkuliert.16237/
and additionally:
https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/liste-der-anfallenden-Baunebenkosten-bauseits-teurer.9737/
The hipped roof simply ends up being excessively tall if you want usable space underneath... The roof height needs to be at least 1.5 times the height of the ground floor below. Just to compare again:
Here, the roof height with a 28° pitch is about 40cm (16 inches) higher than a normal story.
And for comparison, here’s the hipped roof with a 28° pitch (which I would consider a reasonable ratio)... but then there is not much usable space left in the middle, and window installation is also not ideal.
--------------
And it’s worth planning the resulting floor area in the attic to understand why you end up using at least 5 sqm (54 sq ft) in the ground floor just for the stair landing area.
Here, the roof height with a 28° pitch is about 40cm (16 inches) higher than a normal story.
And for comparison, here’s the hipped roof with a 28° pitch (which I would consider a reasonable ratio)... but then there is not much usable space left in the middle, and window installation is also not ideal.
--------------
And it’s worth planning the resulting floor area in the attic to understand why you end up using at least 5 sqm (54 sq ft) in the ground floor just for the stair landing area.
C
Chrisi190614 Aug 2019 13:31kbt09 schrieb:
I would also avoid placing the entrance too far back... Generally, I’m still a fan of the longer but narrower design. However, if the external dimensions have to be 11.5 x 16 meters (38 x 52 feet), here is another attempt from me.
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28_Lageplan.jpg"]37435[/ATTACH]
No garage, just a "shed" for bicycles, etc. The light area is the carport roof. Green indicates the entrance door to the shed – this way, you can reasonably bring bicycles inside.
In addition, a visitor’s car could still park in front, maintaining enough distance from the entrance.
[ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28_GrundrissEG.jpg"]37439[/ATTACH] [ATTACH alt="chrisi1906_201908_v2_Satteldach28_GrundrissGenutzt.jpg"]37441[/ATTACH]
Key points of the floor plans:
- No staircase directly at the entrance
- Adequate cloakroom space at the entrance for shoes, jackets, etc. (approx. 350 cm (138 inches))
- Utility/technical room (HAR)... big enough to also fit a stroller or similar items
- Small bathroom for kids and guests with a bathtub, possibly embedded in the screed floor, so it might be possible to later install a walk-in shower
- Hallway used for a laundry area with washer/dryer, workspace above for folding laundry, total width about 150 cm (59 inches), with slatted curtain in front. Next to it, a small storage room for laundry collection, which could also store toilet paper and similar supplies, accessible from all private rooms
- Master bedroom with an ensuite bathroom featuring a walk-in shower, two sinks, and 25 cm (10 inches) deep storage for cosmetics, etc.
- Staircase at the end of the hallway with storage underneath for vacuum cleaner, mop, small kitchen supplies like beverage crates, etc. Centrally located in the house. The staircase has a window with a 165 cm (65 inches) high railing facing the living/dining area to bring light into the hallway
- Open plan kitchen/dining/living area with large island, generous space for dining table (marked 100 x 200 cm (39 x 79 inches)) and a quiet corner for sofa/TV/sound system, which won’t disturb anyone because the wardrobes are placed between this area and the master bedroom
- Upper floor (OG) facing southeast with an open play area featuring a railing about 110 cm (43 inches) high around the staircase, two skylights, and windows facing southeast
- Then a “storage corridor” with four cabinets, each 2 m (6.6 feet) wide and 2 m (6.6 feet) high. You can often get such cabinets inexpensively, and here everything that fits well in cabinets can be stored: off-season clothing, decorations, games, files, etc. On either side, “unordered storage” for items like skis, suitcases, surfboards, and other miscellaneous things
- Northwest side: the home office room, which can also fit a guest bed 140 cm (55 inches) wide. From there, you can quickly notify the delivery person if you can’t get downstairs fast enough after the doorbell rings 🙂
- On the attic floor (DG), I would provide water/toilet connections (marked in red). With some redesigning, it would be easy to fit four rooms and a small bathroom up there. Since the master bathroom is directly below, the plumbing wouldn’t be too complicated.
Overall, I still find my first design very appealing. It had a pitched roof with a 22° angle. Wow, you really put a lot of thought into it. I basically like the layout a lot. Only one thing is missing or bothers me: we would like to have a shower in every bathroom and a bathtub in one of them. Can you make that happen?
If I now tell the builder/planner that we want to throw everything out again, it feels strange/awkward. :-( What exactly speaks against my floor plan?
Similar topics