ᐅ Photovoltaics at Any Cost – Current Situation and Available Options
Created on: 31 Jul 2022 13:22
H
HnghusBY
Hello everyone,
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
B
Bausparfuchs26 Nov 2022 11:08Here is the storage cost calculation once again.
My installation cost for battery storage with 10 kWh capacity was 5,200 euros gross.
The battery is charged with 3,000 kWh annually.
Since January 1, 2022, my electricity price has been 48.06 cents per kWh.
The savings on the electricity bill are about 1,500 euros per year.
From this, we obviously have to subtract the feed-in tariff, because otherwise, we would feed the electricity into the grid instead of charging the battery.
Of course, not at 48.06 cents but only at 8 cents.
So we subtract 240 euros from the 1,500 euros, leaving 1,260 euros in annual savings from the storage system. It takes just under 5 years to pay off.
It starts paying off from day one. And I’m sure the electricity price will continue to rise in the coming years.
In other forums, there has always been this argument that the storage system is nonsense, never pays off, and that electricity prices will fall again.
You can believe that if you want, but you don’t have to. Many thousands of solar investors actually believed this nonsense. They fully equipped their roofs, fed all their energy into the grid, and ended up with completely wrong calculations.
My personal goal was always to become largely self-sufficient and pay as little as possible to my electricity supplier.
From an annual consumption of 5,000 kWh, I have reduced it to only 1,000 kWh per year.
That saves me nearly 2,000 euros on my yearly electricity bill, storage system or not.
My installation cost for battery storage with 10 kWh capacity was 5,200 euros gross.
The battery is charged with 3,000 kWh annually.
Since January 1, 2022, my electricity price has been 48.06 cents per kWh.
The savings on the electricity bill are about 1,500 euros per year.
From this, we obviously have to subtract the feed-in tariff, because otherwise, we would feed the electricity into the grid instead of charging the battery.
Of course, not at 48.06 cents but only at 8 cents.
So we subtract 240 euros from the 1,500 euros, leaving 1,260 euros in annual savings from the storage system. It takes just under 5 years to pay off.
It starts paying off from day one. And I’m sure the electricity price will continue to rise in the coming years.
In other forums, there has always been this argument that the storage system is nonsense, never pays off, and that electricity prices will fall again.
You can believe that if you want, but you don’t have to. Many thousands of solar investors actually believed this nonsense. They fully equipped their roofs, fed all their energy into the grid, and ended up with completely wrong calculations.
My personal goal was always to become largely self-sufficient and pay as little as possible to my electricity supplier.
From an annual consumption of 5,000 kWh, I have reduced it to only 1,000 kWh per year.
That saves me nearly 2,000 euros on my yearly electricity bill, storage system or not.
T
Torti2022neu26 Nov 2022 11:36Tolentino schrieb:
That is a price per kWh that you normally don’t get. Well, the battery storage alone currently costs starting from €4,300 (gross) nationwide, with the nicer/better versions starting at about €7,000. If you do the installation yourself together with a trusted electrician friend, the price is actually reasonable.
From the solar installer’s point of view, of course, it looks quite different.
Bausparfuchs schrieb:
.....
It pays off from day one. And I’m sure that electricity prices will continue to rise in the coming years.
In other forums, the common argument was that storage systems are nonsense, never pay off, and electricity prices will fall again.
I would fully agree with those people in other forums about electricity prices, but the question is at what time of day the price actually decreases. I regularly check the hourly electricity market prices on Awwatar, and there you can clearly see what happens with good renewable energy yields — electricity prices then drop sharply, sometimes even going negative.
These cheap phases will increase significantly if we take expansion seriously.
The goal should be to better use and manage these phases through variable electricity tariffs billed hourly and, during times of low feed-in, provide appropriate financial incentives for storage owners (home batteries or electric vehicles) to supply their electricity.
I wouldn’t make a blanket statement that storage isn’t worth it (right now it definitely is), but I think in the future it will very much depend on the purpose (for personal use only or also grid-supportive).
Congratulations to anyone who manages to acquire and install storage systems at the prices mentioned, and possibly even receive subsidies.
When storage can be installed for €500/kWh (approximately $540/kWh) or less, it definitely becomes economically interesting.
In my opinion, however, this is unrealistic at the moment.
I also don’t know where some people here get their prices from. I find (admittedly without hours of research) prices around €800/kWh (about $860/kWh) for systems that can actually be ordered. And keep in mind, that is just the storage itself—no hybrid inverters, no installation, etc.
Some figures here don’t make sense to me either.
3,000 kWh from a 10 kWh storage per year would mean 300 cycles. Even optimists usually don’t expect that kind of usage in normal operation.
I also find it puzzling how, with an annual consumption of 5,000 kWh, 3,000 kWh can come from storage, 1,000 kWh be drawn from the grid, and only 1,000 kWh be consumed directly. @Bausparfuchs?
When storage can be installed for €500/kWh (approximately $540/kWh) or less, it definitely becomes economically interesting.
In my opinion, however, this is unrealistic at the moment.
I also don’t know where some people here get their prices from. I find (admittedly without hours of research) prices around €800/kWh (about $860/kWh) for systems that can actually be ordered. And keep in mind, that is just the storage itself—no hybrid inverters, no installation, etc.
Some figures here don’t make sense to me either.
3,000 kWh from a 10 kWh storage per year would mean 300 cycles. Even optimists usually don’t expect that kind of usage in normal operation.
I also find it puzzling how, with an annual consumption of 5,000 kWh, 3,000 kWh can come from storage, 1,000 kWh be drawn from the grid, and only 1,000 kWh be consumed directly. @Bausparfuchs?
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