ᐅ Photovoltaics at Any Cost – Current Situation and Available Options
Created on: 31 Jul 2022 13:22
H
HnghusBY
Hello everyone,
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
Hello,
regarding those fence things:
Right now, there is a bit of a hype around them, with some developers trying to secure funding and investments. They don’t offer any real practical benefits. It’s completely out of the question to use any rotating elements as fencing. How would you secure that? What if a child puts their hand in there? What if animals try to squeeze through? How do you prevent reflections that could blind drivers?
As a proof of concept and a test to see if something like this works, it’s all interesting and exciting. But I don’t see any real chance for actual implementation. At best, maybe in a fenced-off area, but then wouldn’t it make more sense to install a conventional system there instead?
Best regards,
Andreas
regarding those fence things:
Right now, there is a bit of a hype around them, with some developers trying to secure funding and investments. They don’t offer any real practical benefits. It’s completely out of the question to use any rotating elements as fencing. How would you secure that? What if a child puts their hand in there? What if animals try to squeeze through? How do you prevent reflections that could blind drivers?
As a proof of concept and a test to see if something like this works, it’s all interesting and exciting. But I don’t see any real chance for actual implementation. At best, maybe in a fenced-off area, but then wouldn’t it make more sense to install a conventional system there instead?
Best regards,
Andreas
M
motorradsilke27 Nov 2022 14:43andimann schrieb:
Hello,
regarding those fence things:
Right now, it’s a bit of a trend that some developers use to collect funding and investment money. They don’t offer any real practical benefits. It is completely out of the question to use any rotating elements as a fence. How would you secure that? What if a child sticks their hand inside? Animals trying to get through? How do you prevent reflections that could blind drivers?
As a proof of concept and a test to see if something like this works, it’s all cool and interesting. But I don’t see any chances for actual implementation. At best, on a secured area, but then wouldn’t it make more sense to install a conventional system instead?!?
Best regards,
Andreas Then take a look at Panel Wiatrowy. That already goes in the direction of solving the problems you mentioned. If necessary, a thin kind of wire mesh fence can be added around it. That makes it suitable as a regular fence, for single-family homes or even industrial sites.
motorradsilke schrieb:
I’ve read something similar before. Fence-shaped wind turbines, less prone to damage, very efficient, but not yet ready for mass production.
Maybe our government will manage to invest some funding into projects like these and their manufacturing.
In general, I hope these systems will become more affordable once China abandons its zero-COVID policy and production facilities are established in other countries. We experienced something similar in Germany; if those companies hadn’t been allowed to go bankrupt but were subsidized, we would be in a better position now.
Relevant skilled workers could also be trained within two to three years. - Less prone to failure than conventional turbines, more efficient than current systems. Still far from the efficiency of photovoltaic panels.
- China will never ease zero-COVID unless there is a change in leadership.
- In Germany, those companies were not simply left to go bankrupt; they were effectively forced into bankruptcy by the government through retroactive regulations aimed solely at this politically motivated outcome.
- To train skilled workers, you need willing and available people. Both seem unlikely in this sector.
… life isn’t a bed of roses …
SumsumBiene schrieb:
If these mini wind turbines become ready for mass production soon, photovoltaic prices might drop?
Then you would have to choose between wind or solar energy. There are already prototypes of mini wind turbines that are invisible to the naked eye (measured in micrometers, etched like microchips). These are not “mini generators” but (I’m not entirely sure) some kind of piezoelectric energy conversion or another method requiring very little mechanical effort.
The surface area of a phone case would be enough to charge the phone.
W
WilderSueden27 Nov 2022 18:41motorradsilke schrieb:
Yes, but it would be worth pursuing further. Almost everyone has a fence area or could install one. Not everyone has a fence area, and especially not a good one. This is where point 3 from my list becomes even more relevant. A 10-15 m (33-49 ft) mast next to 6-8 m (20-26 ft) houses is already problematic in terms of wind. Such a fence structure is only 0-2 m (0-6.5 ft) high, so you are even more in the wind shadow. Possibly there is a hedge behind the fence, but even the neighbor’s hedge across the street is enough. These effects are especially strong at low to moderate wind speeds.
Of course, it makes sense to research all directions at first. Considering the overall picture, a few million spent on prototypes is a bargain. However, expectations have to be realistic, and even if we manage to safely secure things like rotating fence parts with wire cages in compliance with standards, the placement is simply not good. There are reasons why “regular wind turbines” are built very high and why they are mostly located in northern Germany, where the land is flatter and the wind conditions are better. Of course, news outlets like to hype these as the new great thing because it attracts lots of clicks. It’s like hydrogen cars. In my youth, they were already “the future,” but 30 years have passed and these are still better prototypes.
Hello,
Do you mean this?
In a secured area, sure, it could be a cool idea. But as a fence? Never! Even attempting to get approval for that is hopeless. In Europe, something like this would be classified as machinery, subject to machinery directives and requiring CE marking. It just isn’t allowed.
Aside from that, the efficiency of a wind turbine at 0–2 m (0–6.5 ft) height is going to be very poor. There’s a reason why modern wind turbines have hub heights of 100–150 m (330–490 ft).
Best regards,
Andreas
motorradsilke schrieb:
Then take a look at panel windbreaks. That already points in the direction of solving the problems you mentioned. If necessary, you can add a thin sort of wire mesh fence around it. That way, it can serve as a normal fence, either for single-family homes or industrial sites.
Do you mean this?
In a secured area, sure, it could be a cool idea. But as a fence? Never! Even attempting to get approval for that is hopeless. In Europe, something like this would be classified as machinery, subject to machinery directives and requiring CE marking. It just isn’t allowed.
Aside from that, the efficiency of a wind turbine at 0–2 m (0–6.5 ft) height is going to be very poor. There’s a reason why modern wind turbines have hub heights of 100–150 m (330–490 ft).
Best regards,
Andreas
M
motorradsilke27 Nov 2022 20:28WilderSueden schrieb:
Not everyone has fence surfaces, and especially not good fence surfaces. This is where point 3 on my list becomes even more relevant. A 10–15 m (33–49 ft) mast next to 6–8 m (20–26 ft) houses is already challenging in terms of wind. A fence system usually reaches heights of 0–2 m (0–6.5 ft), so it remains much more sheltered from the wind. Possibly there is a hedge behind the fence, but even the neighbor's hedge across the street is usually enough. These effects are particularly strong at low to moderate wind speeds.
Many plots have fence surfaces. Where there isn’t one yet, you can always install one. Of course, not a hedge in front of it. Also, you can’t always assume your hilly region as the standard. There are plenty of flat areas in Germany as well, where it can be quite windy. In the city, naturally less wind, but in flat regions like Mecklenburg or Brandenburg, this could work quite well in my opinion.
Of course, not every technology fits every area. And of course, these units won’t be as effective as a large wind turbine. But you can at least place these units in villages, where they don’t bother anyone. Unlike wind turbines.
I believe that in the long term, a combination of different technologies is the only way to help us. And from my perspective, research in all directions is worthwhile.
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