ᐅ Initial floor plan draft of the ground floor

Regarding Alex, we did some comparisons, but mainly local ones. The big companies were quickly ruled out because they were either too expensive or seemed unreliable.

Sloppiness can be found everywhere. But what 11ant said was different. He advised to hire an architect; otherwise, you’ll get taken advantage of. And honestly, I say no—getting taken advantage of by company owners you know personally is very unlikely. We can talk about poor workmanship and how to eliminate it, among reasonable people. However, it’s not worth making a big deal out of a three-millimeter (about 1/8 inch) scratch on a door handle. You can spot poor workmanship if you occasionally visit the construction site with a friend who knows the trade. Even a layperson can see obvious errors. If drywall panels are uneven and the ceiling looks like a mountain range, you don’t have to be an architect to notice that. In that case, you don’t talk directly to the owner but first to the site supervisor and say: Guys, you’re professionals, and this is not up to your usual standard. Please, I won’t pay for this. Please redo the room. In my experience, this approach works. Karsten

But I am not Alex [emoji6]

MIA_SAN_MIA__ schrieb:
That's a completely different matter. As mentioned above, you obviously have to compare and get other quotes as well. But basically, I prefer to have someone whose work I know, rather than a complete stranger.

Basically yes, but do you really know everyone's work just because you know them?
Village gossip can be tricky too.
It doesn’t matter to me whether I went to school with them or how many beers we’ve had together. What’s more important is if, for example, the architect tends to charge extra for every small deviation or lets things slide. How punctual they are with appointments, and so on.

Without regular construction supervision, a lot of poor workmanship can be concealed, regardless of whether you have known the company owner for 20 years or not. Usually, the owner does not build personally but relies on their employees. The issue is not about a crooked drywall panel, which is usually inconsequential. It’s about faulty waterproofing, missing reinforcement bars in the concrete, and so on. Naturally, when problems arise, you first discuss them with the site foreman, and if the ceiling is poured properly, there’s usually a snack and a beer. We have noticed that work is much cleaner and more precise when you simply visit the site every day, ask a few questions, and keep thorough documentation.

Nordlys schrieb:
But what 11ant said was something different. He said, hire an architect, otherwise they will take advantage of you. And honestly, I say no, being taken advantage of by business owners you know personally is very unlikely.

And here I say, you are right. But I wasn’t referring (only) to the construction management. Rather: when a layperson says,

MIA_SAN_MIA__ schrieb:
you obviously have to compare and get other quotes too.

they usually create a typical layperson’s tender, which the bidders immediately recognize as such, and usually take advantage of (unless, maybe, you are in the same choir or the same fire brigade).

It goes like this, for example: the client sends the permit drawings/planning permission along to the tradespeople, adding a description of what they want.

The tradespeople respond with a “quote.” At the bottom, there is a total price, and in between some wording about exactly what is being offered. Windows, number of panes, profile thickness, U-value. The small abbreviations like AD or MD are hardly noticed. Often, descriptions of services are changed in the response. “Professionally done,” “according to DIN,” “bleached,” “oiled” – some differences the layperson can’t classify. “Frost resistant,” “vapour-permeable,” “class XYZ.” Was “or equivalent” correctly interpreted? Here the bidder can pull the strings, and they know it.

Or, as mentioned, the topic of “time and material” work:

haydee schrieb:
More important is if the architect, for example, says they try to charge for every little deviation or just lets some things slide.

“I had to fiddle longer than expected, my predecessor finished their work carelessly.” You can quickly fool laypeople. How much does it cost just to omit the notice to check measurements on site (?)

In the drawings, dimensions are given to half a centimeter (about 0.2 inches) “accurately” – the client often mistakes this for manufacturing accuracy. Or tolerances, like when something is too uneven or the like. The supposedly applicable DIN standard (or, unfortunately, just its cousin from the same series) is quickly googled (and misinterpreted).

Professional experience cannot be replaced here. With three decades (and one nearly finished house now plus another long-occupied one before!) of life experience, which Karsten has over the original poster, this of course puts things into perspective. But you have to be that far along first.

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Nana, don’t make a construction expert out of me. I manage properties and land that is leased to farmers. The land requires little maintenance, but the properties need to be cared for, maintained, renovated, or sometimes sold, newly built, or remodeled. We handle this, except for small tasks, with the help of architects. However, they are not just my friends but also have their own interests, especially since the fee structure (HOAI) is linked to the construction price. I am the one who says no, keeping an eye on the costs. And I’m quite good at saying no. I’m an amateur when it comes to construction, like most participants here. With some experience, yes. But without formal construction training. Karsten