Hello,
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
here I would like to share some experiences and data regarding my brine heat pump and deep drilling, based in part on the expert’s "questionnaire":
a) What is the soil composition on your property?
Up to 3m (10 feet) silty, fine sandy, clayey soil
Up to 4m (13 feet) slope debris, rock fragments
Then bedrock (mainly limestone)
b) How deep was the drilling?
Drilled twice to a depth of 72m (236 feet)
c) How much did the drilling cost?
€10,400 including double U-probes DN25
Grouting material with 2.0 W/mK thermal conductivity
Permitting process (building permit / planning permission)
Pressure-tight house entry at the basement and underground routing of supply lines (about 25m (82 feet))
Filling/draining equipment, filling, pressure testing, etc. (all inclusive)
d) How much did the system cost?
System: Tecalor TTc 05 with heating output at B0/W35 of 5.8 kW and coefficient of performance (COP) of 4.8
Cost: €9,800
e) Were there any difficulties during installation, if so, what kind?
Because the water used to flush out the drilled material during drilling seeped away, a "small compressor" was needed to blow it out with air. However, it had to be placed on a neighbor’s property who had not yet started building. The machine was the size and approximate weight of a 20-ton truck but was off-road capable. This caused a 2-day delay because the compressor first had to be transported to our site. No additional costs were charged.
f) How is the daily operation?
"Like a refrigerator." Once the parameters on the heating system are correctly set, the only thing that should be done is occasionally reading the information/data such as operating hours and source temperature. Otherwise, it runs "on its own," just like any heating system. When the door is closed, the unit is virtually inaudible. Very discreet since, apart from the cabinet in the utility room, nothing else is visible (all brine pipes are underground).
e) What are the operating costs for which living area?
Currently, a living area of 180sqm (1937 sqft) is heated, plus an additional 65sqm (700 sqft) of cellar space within the insulated thermal envelope (these rooms are around 15-16°C (59-61°F) on the coldest days). From September 2014 to September 2015, 2,000 kWh of electricity was consumed for heating and hot water (2 adults, 1 baby, 1 toddler). The house is a KfW-70 standard building according to the 2009 energy saving regulations, which already met the required technical standards before the central ventilation system with enthalpy heat exchanger was installed (we decided to add this after the initial applications).
f) to be continued ....
Note regarding the comparison of the coefficient of performance (COP):
Since optimizing the heating curve and settings at the end of last year, the system has had a COP of about 5.5. Operating hours are around 1200; the deep borehole was drilled approximately 20% deeper than initially recommended by the companies, at our own request.
guckuck2 schrieb:
According to my experience, drilling companies exclude initial heating in new construction → warranty loss.
The probe or trench collector is not designed for such a level of heat extraction and can freeze, in the worst case causing irreversible damage. In fact, this was rejected by our plumber for exactly this reason.
N
nordanney12 Apr 2021 16:38guckuck2 schrieb:
Based on my experience, drilling companies exclude initial heating in new buildings to avoid warranty issues.Running the heating at full capacity according to the formal heating schedule makes sense. However, in practice, 35 degrees Celsius (95°F) is sufficient – this works very well with geothermal systems. You then need a screeder/heating installer who does not strictly follow formal heating protocols (which is the same for heat pumps and oil systems), even though the heat pump will never actually reach 55 degrees Celsius (131°F) in the screed later on.Well, my main question was actually whether at this stage (screed heating program) I don’t yet have to have the hot water tank installed. Because the hot water tank is supposed to be placed on the screed later. There is a concrete base for the brine-water heat pump.
Oh, and regarding the heat source: The manufacturer and installer of our deep collector (not a horizontal trench collector) said that we could easily use the brine circuit to heat the screed 🙄
Oh, and regarding the heat source: The manufacturer and installer of our deep collector (not a horizontal trench collector) said that we could easily use the brine circuit to heat the screed 🙄
nordanney schrieb:
Heating at full power according to a formal heating schedule makes sense. In real life, however, 35 degrees Celsius (95°F) is sufficient – which works very well with geothermal systems. You then need a screed installer/heating technician who doesn’t strictly follow formal heating protocols (which applies equally to heat pumps and oil heaters, even though the heat pump will never actually reach 55 degrees Celsius (131°F) in the screed).The problem is not (only) the increase to 55 degrees Celsius (131°F). Bringing a damp new build from 5 degrees Celsius (41°F) indoor temperature up to 35 degrees Celsius (95°F) overloads the heat source.
As I already mentioned, heating the screed is generally done with a brine (glycol) heat pump. I have a brine heat pump with a deep ground probe myself, and the (integrated automatic) screed heating program was carried out using it. However, this system did not use the probes, but instead (also automatically) the internal heating rods. In principle, a heat pump can certainly use the probes for this purpose, since it measures the temperature of the brine, for example, and if certain limits are not met, the heating rods then activate.
I believe the general statement that raising a damp building from 5 to 35 degrees Celsius (41 to 95°F) is too much for the heat source is incorrect. The heat pump is definitely designed to maintain a comfortable indoor temperature even at around -15°C (5°F), and with current insulation standards, the required heat load can be delivered. The screed heating programs are not intended to reach maximum temperature immediately; rather, the temperature is usually increased gradually. Otherwise, these programs would not be necessary at all.
Besides, this can definitely work without a storage tank, since a heat pump without an integrated storage tank can also be used as a storage-free heating source.
I believe the general statement that raising a damp building from 5 to 35 degrees Celsius (41 to 95°F) is too much for the heat source is incorrect. The heat pump is definitely designed to maintain a comfortable indoor temperature even at around -15°C (5°F), and with current insulation standards, the required heat load can be delivered. The screed heating programs are not intended to reach maximum temperature immediately; rather, the temperature is usually increased gradually. Otherwise, these programs would not be necessary at all.
Besides, this can definitely work without a storage tank, since a heat pump without an integrated storage tank can also be used as a storage-free heating source.
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