ᐅ Comparability of Costs: Architect vs. General Contractor
Created on: 4 Mar 2021 16:57
A
askforafriend
Hello dear forum,
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
We are currently in the planning phase for a single-family house. We have requested quotes from several general contractors and have also spoken with a very approachable architect. We would be happy to present our building project (BVH) in detail at a later stage!
Overall, we much prefer the transparency and approach of the architect compared to the initial consultation with the general contractor. We understand that over time, we will also speak with an architect/planner through the general contractor who will discuss details with us. We have thoroughly researched the advantages and disadvantages both in this forum and through various guides.
At this stage, our main focus is on comparing the cost estimates from the general contractors versus the architect. The general contractor states the costs as a fixed price (based on the building and scope of services description) plus our additional requests (extra electrical outlets, KfW standard, etc.). A rough total for the house including additional requests was, for example, 410,000 euros. This naturally also includes architectural/planning/engineering services according to the scope of work description.
Land leveling.
Discussions about your building project together with you during planning and construction meetings. Preparation of building permit/planning permission documents at a scale of 1:100 in the required number of copies for the authorities.
You will receive an additional set of plans for your personal records.
Development of working drawings (scale 1:50) as well as any necessary detailed drawings.
Creation of structural engineering plans (standard structural design for the respective house type) including any required building physics reports for thermal and fire protection.
Calculation of energy demand and preparation of the energy performance certificate. A copy will be provided for your records.
Preparation of public funding applications, if required.
Site management and construction supervision up to handover of the house.
Support during the warranty period.
When we first met with the architect, he took out a book labeled BKI to provide a rough estimate of the feasibility of the building project based on this data. He calculated roughly 3,000 euros per square meter and 150 square meters (1,615 square feet) of living space, resulting in a total of 450,000 euros.
The big question now is: Does this amount exclude his fees or do these average construction costs per square meter already include the services mentioned above? This might be a somewhat naive question, but it’s really unclear to us. Is there a list of costs that are included in these average rates?
We have an appointment with him next week for a more detailed cost assessment.
Thank you very much for your feedback, and I wish you a pleasant week.
By the way, you can also purchase the architect’s design and then take it to the general contractor (GC), who will handle the detailed planning, building permit application/planning permission, etc. This would be a combination of both approaches.
For me personally, hiring an architect was never an option. Our budget was too tight for me to feel comfortable with that. I come from a background heavily focused on automotive development projects, with detailed specifications and requirements sheets.
So, I gave the "forum design" from here to the GC, and their draftsman imported it into their CAD program. A few walls and windows were moved around, and that was it. After that, for me, it was just about carefully reading the construction specifications and negotiating my must-haves into the offer, such as underfloor heating design, larger tiles, or external venetian blinds.
After that, the key is to stay reasonable and budget-oriented. However, keep in mind that reputable GCs don’t randomly charge extra for special requests after signing. Usually, any changes compared to the construction specifications are also checked with the tradespeople and then offered to you by the GC with an additional charge. The same will happen with an architect as well!
For me personally, hiring an architect was never an option. Our budget was too tight for me to feel comfortable with that. I come from a background heavily focused on automotive development projects, with detailed specifications and requirements sheets.
So, I gave the "forum design" from here to the GC, and their draftsman imported it into their CAD program. A few walls and windows were moved around, and that was it. After that, for me, it was just about carefully reading the construction specifications and negotiating my must-haves into the offer, such as underfloor heating design, larger tiles, or external venetian blinds.
After that, the key is to stay reasonable and budget-oriented. However, keep in mind that reputable GCs don’t randomly charge extra for special requests after signing. Usually, any changes compared to the construction specifications are also checked with the tradespeople and then offered to you by the GC with an additional charge. The same will happen with an architect as well!
In my case, it is partly like that, but it comes down to the same thing if the contractor only lists the catalog prices as surcharges and does not negotiate, because the general contractor has previously negotiated the standard prices down so much that the contractor has no profit margin left and tries to make it all up through the surcharges.
I believe this is like comparing apples and oranges. Most of the advantages of an architect cannot be quantified in numbers.
As mentioned before, there are good and bad ones everywhere, so let’s assume a good architect: enthusiasm, enhanced status, client care, freedom, flexibility, and more creative options.
This also involves disadvantages: longer construction time, dependency, and even with freedom and flexibility, many clients struggle to manage. Due to these factors, a house designed by an architect is often about 20% more expensive than the estimate.
Yes, you are just one customer among many if it’s a larger general contractor. They want to sell a standard house to the client—it’s not a custom home, so the time factor for the client is tighter. (Compare tailor/designer store/department store)
But you can also get good advice and quality at a department store.
You just have to “collaborate” a bit more. Nowadays, many end customers save costs by skipping services; in my opinion, architect-led builds and general contractor builds don’t differ much in that regard. Only that with one you must (general contractor), with the other you can (architect)... but with the latter, you want to, with the former, you usually don’t.
“Unexplainable extra charges” is relative: if you understand that with a walk-in shower, it’s not just the shower tray that is omitted but also more work for the tiler, screeding contractor, and plumber... an additional wall is tiled, with waterproofing underneath, then a surcharge of 1000€ becomes understandable. Most general contractors have sophisticated modular systems...
I know many houses from the 1980s/90s built with an architect. Full-service general contractors did not exist back then (and this does offer many advantages).
And those houses are nothing special really. Square, practical, good. Across the street or in the neighborhood you can’t necessarily tell there’s an architect involved, because even with architects, most build only what they can afford, and mainstream prevails.
But occasionally you do find beautiful or less attractive unique examples. When I enter such a house, I enjoy the individual interior layout, which is not necessarily more practical than a standard one but more appealing in terms of spatial feeling.
Same here.
If you don’t need to do fancy maneuvers on your plot and can more or less find yourself in the scope of work, you can build more affordably and with peace of mind using a general contractor, within your budget.
But if, for whatever reason, you can’t settle with the options offered, if you plan an extra feature on every wall and corner, get upset about visible pipes or drains in utility rooms that aren’t hidden, about a beam between kitchen and living room that isn’t concealed in the ceiling but visible, dream of built-in extras not offered by the general contractor—then please go with an architect. But be prepared to pay for it.
For example, we managed to realize a great open space with our general contractor and the standard house model. If we had gone with an architect, they probably would have suggested some indentation, recess, or whatever. Maybe the staircase would have been somewhere else, but the house would also have been 30cm (12 inches) wider on the architect’s recommendation—with a five-digit surcharge and a much longer planning time. With the general contractor, it is now as offered, and we are happy.
From experience, architect-designed houses are more expensive because you pay for the services.
As mentioned before, there are good and bad ones everywhere, so let’s assume a good architect: enthusiasm, enhanced status, client care, freedom, flexibility, and more creative options.
This also involves disadvantages: longer construction time, dependency, and even with freedom and flexibility, many clients struggle to manage. Due to these factors, a house designed by an architect is often about 20% more expensive than the estimate.
askforafriend schrieb:
What we really dislike are partly inexplicable extra charges in the general contractor’s offers and especially the cluelessness/lack of ideas when it comes to questions about the placement/planning of the house on the plot. It rather feels like buying a car from a dealer who doesn’t care where you drive it.
Yes, you are just one customer among many if it’s a larger general contractor. They want to sell a standard house to the client—it’s not a custom home, so the time factor for the client is tighter. (Compare tailor/designer store/department store)
But you can also get good advice and quality at a department store.
You just have to “collaborate” a bit more. Nowadays, many end customers save costs by skipping services; in my opinion, architect-led builds and general contractor builds don’t differ much in that regard. Only that with one you must (general contractor), with the other you can (architect)... but with the latter, you want to, with the former, you usually don’t.
“Unexplainable extra charges” is relative: if you understand that with a walk-in shower, it’s not just the shower tray that is omitted but also more work for the tiler, screeding contractor, and plumber... an additional wall is tiled, with waterproofing underneath, then a surcharge of 1000€ becomes understandable. Most general contractors have sophisticated modular systems...
OWLer schrieb:
Then for me, it was just about reading the scope of work very carefully.
I know many houses from the 1980s/90s built with an architect. Full-service general contractors did not exist back then (and this does offer many advantages).
And those houses are nothing special really. Square, practical, good. Across the street or in the neighborhood you can’t necessarily tell there’s an architect involved, because even with architects, most build only what they can afford, and mainstream prevails.
But occasionally you do find beautiful or less attractive unique examples. When I enter such a house, I enjoy the individual interior layout, which is not necessarily more practical than a standard one but more appealing in terms of spatial feeling.
OWLer schrieb:
For me personally, having an architect was never an option. Our budget was too low to dare that.
Same here.
If you don’t need to do fancy maneuvers on your plot and can more or less find yourself in the scope of work, you can build more affordably and with peace of mind using a general contractor, within your budget.
But if, for whatever reason, you can’t settle with the options offered, if you plan an extra feature on every wall and corner, get upset about visible pipes or drains in utility rooms that aren’t hidden, about a beam between kitchen and living room that isn’t concealed in the ceiling but visible, dream of built-in extras not offered by the general contractor—then please go with an architect. But be prepared to pay for it.
For example, we managed to realize a great open space with our general contractor and the standard house model. If we had gone with an architect, they probably would have suggested some indentation, recess, or whatever. Maybe the staircase would have been somewhere else, but the house would also have been 30cm (12 inches) wider on the architect’s recommendation—with a five-digit surcharge and a much longer planning time. With the general contractor, it is now as offered, and we are happy.
From experience, architect-designed houses are more expensive because you pay for the services.
H
HilfeHilfe5 Mar 2021 09:40We decided back then to go with a general contractor (GC) who didn’t just offer standard, pre-designed houses but was also willing to accommodate our specific wishes. In hindsight, we were glad we did. There was a fixed price, many changes were made without extra cost (such as moving walls), and when there were additional charges, they were passed on 1:1 or directly settled with the subcontractors.
It is difficult to find the right GC who handles additional costs and flexibility fairly. Based on our experience, mid-sized companies that build only a few houses per year tend to be the most reliable.
It is difficult to find the right GC who handles additional costs and flexibility fairly. Based on our experience, mid-sized companies that build only a few houses per year tend to be the most reliable.
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